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I just can't believe it.

Robin Williams is dead. 63 years old. Apparent suicide.

This one's going to be hard on all of us.

Shooshie

That is so sad.

For no reason at all, I happened to watch a video of him just yesterday - he was on the old Carson Tonight show, and he was soooooo funny. A gifted, truly gifted, guy.

BKK-OZ wrote:That is so sad.

For no reason at all, I happened to watch a video of him just yesterday - he was on the old Carson Tonight show, and he was soooooo funny. A gifted, truly gifted, guy.

Same here. Yesterday I watched the Carson episode in which Jonathan Winters came on in a Civil War outfit, bouncing lines off Williams and vice-versa. They were funny together. But Robin was someone you just couldn't help but to love. He was smart, right-headed, and willing to put it all on the line for a laugh.

People in Hollywood come and go, but Robin Williams leaves a hole that can't be filled. I'm actually going to miss him. A lot.

Shoosh

Yeah, this is tough. I actually thought he was more gifted as an actor than a comic. His comedy was kind of one dimensional, but his acting revealed some incredible nuance and subtlety. I especially remember some of his darker roles like "Insomnia" and " One hour Photo" that proved he could be as terrifying as he was funny. They also showed some disturbing insight into his personality that brings this tragedy into even sharper focus. RIP.

Shocking and very sad. I will miss him. Being from the Bay Area, he was always one of us.

Sad indeed. A reminder of just how many people that would seem to have the world at their feet are struggling with depression. He was so gifted... a true comedic genius and hardly anybody had a quicker mind and could come up with the funniest stuff just improvising. I enjoyed his movies, but really miss his stand up comedy the most. I always lament seeing brilliant stand-up comedians leaving that behind in favor of making movies. Steve Martin comes to mind as well.

RIP Robin. What a tragic loss.

Boundless genius. He could deliver more laughs in 5 minutes of improvising than entire 2-hour movie. Eternal love and peace to you, dear Robin.

Miss U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0VM-MK2CdA

I share the remorse you all feel.
I have also been pondering the thought processes that may or may not have led to his decision to take his life.
I have heard he recently found out he had early Parkinson’s.
Without condoning suicide in the least bit, I think it all too possible that whence a bird flies so high, flying low is unacceptable. Meaning, the specter of mediocrity, in his mind at least, and/or of not being able to perform at his 100% amazing, high flying “standard altitude”, might have just been too abhorrent a concept for him.
It is hard to maintain such heights of talent “forever”. And it must have been a terrible feeling for him to think he could do what he used to do....after being as much a genius as he was...
he also had a recent show on TV “flop”.
Maybe anything less than stellar genius and success wasn’t worth it for him anymore?

...and then you have someone like Muhammad Ali who went from great athelete to parkinson sufferer and bears it with stoicism.

Some have the ability to deal with adversity, some do not, and some, when they feel weak for whatever reason, give in to despair.

It's always sad when people take their own lives (sad for the ones who still live to notice it).

Personally, I see NO value in in stubbornly hanging on to living when the prospect of our remaining life is diminished to such a degree (this reminds me of Gustavo Cerati's situation, for instance).

Based on the latest scientific findings, I think that we are nothing more than sacks of meat governed by the whims and caprices of the ultimate puppeteer: Our brain chemistry.
And when it starts failing, to the point of not being able to live with dignity, there's just no point. No value, no heroism or glory in prolonging the inevitable...

Clinical Depression is very difficult to understand if you're not clinically depressed. The most common mistake the non-depressed make when asking about one's depression is to equate it with sadness. It resembles sadness in some ways, but a big, important difference is that sadness usually has a motive; it's about something, i.e. "she's sad about her cat who has been missing for a week." Depression may have a lot of the symptoms of sadness on the surface, but it's not about anything. It's more like crossed wires, or more literally, neurotransmitter deficiencies. Serotonin, epinephrin, dopamine... these and other neurotransmitters get out of balance, and your brain simply doesn't work normally, but goes into a protective state. Eventually it will come out of it, briefly, sometimes following a sine-wave path between depression and mania, up and down, up and down.

The person who endures this daily often seeks something to balance out the highs and lows. Others just need to elevate the lows; they never experience the manic highs. Medication can be dangerous to someone who is suicidal, for depression leave you vulnerable to the blues, low self image, criticism, self-criticism, and worse. For example, one who is depressed can be very susceptible to the suggestion that the world would be better off without them. They may see themselves as a hindrance to someone else's happiness (when the complete opposite may be the truth — it doesn't matter, depression is irrational), and gradually those little nagging feelings may convince one that suicide is the answer, and that even if it hurts people for a few weeks, they'll be so much better off that they'll be thanking them in a month or two.

So, suicide it is... except... the gun is in that closet out in the garage, and there's not a good place to hang a rope, and you're out of razor blades. The GOOD thing about depression is that it immobilizes you. You may be unable to move for long periods, other than necessary movements. So, while it may be telling you to kill yourself, it's also shut down the neural network that would make it possible to do so. After all, killing yourself requires planning and physical exertion, things that are greatly hindered by depression.

So back to the dangers of anti-depression medication. When you're in the black pit, believing with all your heart that you are a burden to the world, and that you should do the world a favor and end yourself, you're also unable to plan and carry out this difficult task. But take some medication, and there's a point at which it has raised your neurotransmitter network to the point that your body can fully function, but it has done nothing to chase away the darkness. THAT is when you are dangerous to yourself. That's the point at which you can make plans to get the gun, rope, blades, pills, or whatever, then carry out your plans.

A particular drug — Zoloft — has made that a very common occurrence. I've read about hundreds of people killing themselves after starting on Zoloft. Be aware that this isn't about weakness or selfishness, or being inconsiderate to those who love you. This is a chemical problem in which doctors manipulate the chemicals without knowing how they work, or what effect they will have on a particular patient. The suicide victim was acting on forces he or she simply was not prepared to handle.

That is just one example of too many to count. Depression has as many forms as it has victims, and nobody can know or understand exactly what is going on in the mind of a particular victim, nor can they explain it to you. They may temporarily "come out of it" in a social situation, laughing, talking, playing games, even sports, but when they go home alone, they may bottom out even worse for having stolen their reserve to be around others.

The only things I know which help on a long term basis, excluding drugs, are regular schedules, daily exercise, music (playing/performing it, though listening to it can't hurt), predictable meals, plenty of sleep, and an even keel in their personal relations with family at home. The problem is that the depressed person is almost completely unable to fulfill these requirements. They very likely need someone to help them do all these things. That usually doesn't happen, because family members often think that the victim's depression is "about" them (the family member). For example, a wife or mother might think her husband or son gets more depressed when the mother is around, therefore she avoids him.

Don't be harsh or judgmental toward the poor souls who momentarily lose their touchstones in life, leaving them open and vulnerable to self-inflicted harm. If they could come back, they'd be crying along with everyone else over the tragedy they caused. I think that most of them don't mean to hurt anyone (including themselves); they just fall victim to the depletion of their brain chemistry, and they can't get it back under control.

Sorry for the length. Some things just require explanation. I'm still torn up over Robin's death, but I don't hold him responsible for it. I just wish someone could have been there to help him.

Shooshie

Wow, Shoosh. Once again, thoughtful (and thought provoking), extremely well written and concise.

Buzzy

I hear you, Shoosh.

Believe me. I KNOW... I've been battling depression for years now. Thanks to medication that help my brain regulate missing or low supply of certain chemicals, I've been better. But I must use them everyday!

There's nothing more ANNOYING and infuriating than people telling me: Oh, Fernando... You should just be strong. Think nice thoughts and pull yourself together. AAARRRGGHHHH!!!!! As if any of this were a matter of choice and self will

Saying those kind of things just reflects the ignorance and smugness of some people who clearly pull those assertions out of their behinds without the slightest idea of what they're farting about... Arse water, really.

The brain, composed of many trillions of neurons and mind-blowing complexity, are naturally prone to having some "errors" or some imbalances. I mean, it would be almost impossible for such complexity to work perfectly every time for every one. Neuroscience is still very young, but it is looking quite promising, and I avidly follow all the current literature I can get my hands on.

Let me say that again:
We are nothing more than sacks of meat governed by the whims and caprices of the ultimate puppeteer: Our brain chemistry.

Shooshie wrote:Clinical Depression is very difficult to understand if you're not clinically depressed. The most common mistake the non-depressed make when asking about one's depression is to equate it with sadness. It resembles sadness in some ways, but a big, important difference is that sadness usually has a motive; it's about something, i.e. "she's sad about her cat who has been missing for a week." Depression may have a lot of the symptoms of sadness on the surface, but it's not about anything. It's more like crossed wires, or more literally, neurotransmitter deficiencies. Serotonin, epinephrin, dopamine... these and other neurotransmitters get out of balance, and your brain simply doesn't work normally, but goes into a protective state. Eventually it will come out of it, briefly, sometimes following a sine-wave path between depression and mania, up and down, up and down.

The person who endures this daily often seeks something to balance out the highs and lows. Others just need to elevate the lows; they never experience the manic highs. Medication can be dangerous to someone who is suicidal, for depression leave you vulnerable to the blues, low self image, criticism, self-criticism, and worse. For example, one who is depressed can be very susceptible to the suggestion that the world would be better off without them. They may see themselves as a hindrance to someone else's happiness (when the complete opposite may be the truth — it doesn't matter, depression is irrational), and gradually those little nagging feelings may convince one that suicide is the answer, and that even if it hurts people for a few weeks, they'll be so much better off that they'll be thanking them in a month or two.

So, suicide it is... except... the gun is in that closet out in the garage, and there's not a good place to hang a rope, and you're out of razor blades. The GOOD thing about depression is that it immobilizes you. You may be unable to move for long periods, other than necessary movements. So, while it may be telling you to kill yourself, it's also shut down the neural network that would make it possible to do so. After all, killing yourself requires planning and physical exertion, things that are greatly hindered by depression.

So back to the dangers of anti-depression medication. When you're in the black pit, believing with all your heart that you are a burden to the world, and that you should do the world a favor and end yourself, you're also unable to plan and carry out this difficult task. But take some medication, and there's a point at which it has raised your neurotransmitter network to the point that your body can fully function, but it has done nothing to chase away the darkness. THAT is when you are dangerous to yourself. That's the point at which you can make plans to get the gun, rope, blades, pills, or whatever, then carry out your plans.

A particular drug — Zoloft — has made that a very common occurrence. I've read about hundreds of people killing themselves after starting on Zoloft. Be aware that this isn't about weakness or selfishness, or being inconsiderate to those who love you. This is a chemical problem in which doctors manipulate the chemicals without knowing how they work, or what effect they will have on a particular patient. The suicide victim was acting on forces he or she simply was not prepared to handle.

That is just one example of too many to count. Depression has as many forms as it has victims, and nobody can know or understand exactly what is going on in the mind of a particular victim, nor can they explain it to you. They may temporarily "come out of it" in a social situation, laughing, talking, playing games, even sports, but when they go home alone, they may bottom out even worse for having stolen their reserve to be around others.

The only things I know which help on a long term basis, excluding drugs, are regular schedules, daily exercise, music (playing/performing it, though listening to it can't hurt), predictable meals, plenty of sleep, and an even keel in their personal relations with family at home. The problem is that the depressed person is almost completely unable to fulfill these requirements. They very likely need someone to help them do all these things. That usually doesn't happen, because family members often think that the victim's depression is "about" them (the family member). For example, a wife or mother might think her husband or son gets more depressed when the mother is around, therefore she avoids him.

Don't be harsh or judgmental toward the poor souls who momentarily lose their touchstones in life, leaving them open and vulnerable to self-inflicted harm. If they could come back, they'd be crying along with everyone else over the tragedy they caused. I think that most of them don't mean to hurt anyone (including themselves); they just fall victim to the depletion of their brain chemistry, and they can't get it back under control.

Sorry for the length. Some things just require explanation. I'm still torn up over Robin's death, but I don't hold him responsible for it. I just wish someone could have been there to help him.

Shooshie

As a sufferer of depression (unipolar and bipolar) for over forty years (and un-medicated for over 30 years), this is one of the best synopsis of the disease/disorder that I've ever read. Great job!

FMiguelez wrote:
Let me say that again:
We are nothing more than sacks of meat governed by the whims and caprices of the ultimate puppeteer: Our brain chemistry.

I completely disagree, but to discuss it with you I would have to break the rules of the forum, as I think you are.