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Discussions about composing, arranging, orchestration, songwriting, theory and the art of creating music in all forms from orchestral film scores to pop/rock.
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
Since 1000 feet of 35mm film running at about 16fps (or thereabout) came out to 10 minutes. "Two reelers" would then be 20 minutes long or there about. I know, sounds crazy, but that's what happened. A "feature" might be 6 or 8 reels or more. The theaters would routinely cut out sections they didn't like!
Actually, not to put too fine a point on it, but it's 24 frames/second and 16 frames to a foot. But your math is basically right, about 10 (more like 11) minutes per reel at 1000 ft per reel. Which I think is why TV shows are 22 minutes per half an hour (a "double reel")
To answer the basic question, I have done films with all the chunks in one long project, but it was only a hour and had a purposely limited palette of sounds. However, I wouldn't suggest that. Lately I've done each cue as a separate project, with one project where all the mixes reside, lined up to the total running time of the film.
Working in reels always seemed smart to me, and I'm sure the big boys still do it that way, but the new editors don't seem to understand that. Instead they send you the entire film in one QT file. So if you don't line everything up to that, you have to explain what you've done. I just find working with each cue as a separate chunk and lining them up in one long master an easier way to insure sync to the whole film.
Sorry. I'm great at math when it comes to depositing checks and figuring BMI payments. ☺ Inches per second, well sometimes I'm really good at that...
I've also worked with longer films in a single sequence. If it isn't too heavy a load on the CPU it is certainly doable, but I don't work with any editors who want that EXCEPT some silent film scores are over 2 hours (or more) of continuous music and require a single audio file. I also did a 2 hour TV program for Turner Classic movies (Fragments) that was two hours and I ended up doing all the post audio and dialogue editing. In that case, I did use a master sequence that I delivered to the editor in one long, 2 hour wav file, but my cues were always in separate chunks.
2013 Mac Pro 32GB RAM
OSX 10.14.6; DP 10; Track 16; Finale 26, iPad Pro, et al
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:“Art is never finished, only abandoned.”
~ Leonardo da Vinci
He copied me!! I love (and hate) to edit. I will keep refining until the director says, ok I need the final master on this date. Even after that, I will still hear things I wish I added. It's the nature of the business I guess.
Imac Pro 10-core, 64GB Ram, Mac OS (latest), 2TB SSD, Blackmagic Multiport 4TB SSD, DP 10, Motu Ultralite MK3 Hybrid, VSL Instruments, VE Pro, Vienna Suite, Spectrasonics, Project SAM, Spitfire, Kontakt, Korg M3
OMG, that is so my life. The premiere or last layback happens and what gets done gets done. The audience never seems to know, but damn if we don't hear every flaw and none of the glorious work. It's like a beautiful woman in a dazzling gown with a booger hanging out of her nose or toilet paper trailing from her skirt.
What my alter ego actually looks like when it hears those "little" mis-takes....
2013 Mac Pro 32GB RAM
OSX 10.14.6; DP 10; Track 16; Finale 26, iPad Pro, et al
Well, the full mix including dialog/foley/SFX was delivered last night. Being married to the video as we speak. The director and I sat here for 10 hours doing the final edits and mix. Ugh. There are so many problems with each that I can't stand it. In the end I hit the mix at -4.25 dbfs at the loudest passages. I have no idea if that's hot enough or too hot.
He wanted it all really hot, so I gave it to him, but he doesn't know anything about dialognorm either. I have no faith that is will actually come across well on laptop speakers, which is primarily how it will be viewed. Much of the dialog was delivered to me totally hosed, distorted/noisy badly gated. I did what I could, but it sounds like total ass. Plus, that damned dialog keeps getting in the way of my music!
The movie is a funded test movie for Amazon Studios called "The Temple." It's basically Special forces versus the Cthulhu Zombies. It's pretty amusing. I'll link to it when it's up, but I kinda want to hide my head in shame at the final mix. (But what the hell, I scored the whole thing and did mix and post in one week. I guess I always have that excuse, right? )
Golly, MLC, that's a hell of a story. You make this end of the biz sound so....uh. Cursewords. Lots of cursewords.
This particular writer/director appears to be on an upward trajectory, and now that I've added some art to his little cartoon, and delivered, I'm in good with him. (Plus, he's just a really fun and energetic fellow and we get along great.) So with any luck, his next film--the script for which is getting a lot of attention over at Amazon Studios--will be an actual budget film and I'll get dragged along for the ride...which ride you make sound like so much fun. Not. Damn, man, at least back in the day all I had to deal with were A&R people. Heh.
Oh, that was one bad experience out of about 600 good ones. Makes the good ones feel like gold! ☺ More often then not, it's as easy as "hey, wanna do my music?" (sure, let's go!).
Done.
Love that part and love every minute of doing this stuff. Beats working for a living!
2013 Mac Pro 32GB RAM
OSX 10.14.6; DP 10; Track 16; Finale 26, iPad Pro, et al
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:OMG, that is so my life. The premiere or last layback happens and what gets done gets done. The audience never seems to know, but damn if we don't hear every flaw and none of the glorious work. It's like a beautiful woman in a dazzling gown with a booger hanging out of her nose or toilet paper trailing from her skirt.
What my alter ego actually looks like when it hears those "little" mis-takes....
You are hilarious! Love the analogy.
Also enjoyed your story about the sound. I am lucky to have not had anything like that happen yet. The worst experience I had was a commercial that I sent a rough mix until they could finish the computer graphic fx and was promised to be able to tweak it once it came back from the animators. Nope. They sent it on to the agency with the rough mix and it is currently airing in several states. Total bummer for me because I can't stand to hear it the way it is. Would have taken me 2 hours to fix it up, but they forgot to get it to me and they were running so far behind they just sent it to the agency. The sound wasn't that bad, but it could have been so much better emphasizing the animation work.
Imac Pro 10-core, 64GB Ram, Mac OS (latest), 2TB SSD, Blackmagic Multiport 4TB SSD, DP 10, Motu Ultralite MK3 Hybrid, VSL Instruments, VE Pro, Vienna Suite, Spectrasonics, Project SAM, Spitfire, Kontakt, Korg M3
I did the mix and post in one 10 hour session, so if it's dicey, that's why. I suspect they goosed the gain when they laid it in, so there's some fuzziness going on, but at least you can hear the music!
[quote="MIDI Life Crisis"]You can do it all in one chunk. I just like to work in separate chunks to keep the cues separate in case they change. Then I create a master project. And yes, by all means, if you can do the mix, DO THE MIX! Good sound editors are a rare find, IMO. Mediocre ones are a dime a dozen.quote]
Chunk= Song and Separate Chunks = Pattern ala the Alesis MMT-8 way of working, if I'm reading you correctly, MLC.
Yep, keep all the patterns separate in case something DOES change, then all you have to do is repaint a window and NOT the entire house!
Also to keep mixes consistent,wheever, it helps greatly to save some information to paper (old school but STILL effective!) like your recording level, channel and master fader levels,pan postions,FX, in short, ANYTHING that will be able to help you go back and reconstruct ANY cue within about 80% of your original work.
Modern DAWS are great but as far as I know, there's no way for them to document (print) all of the settings in a project. Having your info on paper is like a cook having their recipes in a card file and you don't have to open your computer to do it!
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