Finale 2011

[buzzsmith]

If I lived in LA, I'd buy lunch!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MIDI Life Crisis]

http://forum.makemusic.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great Finale resource and nice folks. The site is run by MakeMusic.

You should also invest $100 for TG Tools. Don't ask. Just do it!

http://www.tgtools.de/index-en.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have to hold Frodo to the ground to let me pay for lunch. Fortunately, hobbitese are so short that's not a big problem. I do feel bad when I accidently pull his toe hairs. He really needs to trim them little guys...

[Frodo]

Did the 3rd song in DP and saved as a MIDI file to import into 2011.

I was very impressed at how much more accurate the result was. I did heavy quantizing in DP prior to the export but in the past I was always having to fix the file. Some notes didn't transcribe, triplets were a nuisance, etc.

That's odd. I would check Finale's quantize settings before importing. If the triplets were eighth-notes, make sure you have the 16th-note checked as the smallest note value in Finale. If you have smaller note values at play, I would do a second import with those smaller note values selected and then just copy-paste those measures.

I'll figure it out, but the resulting Finale project from the SMF import had no libraries loaded. No articulations, etc. I went to the help site and found a few answers that got back most of what I wanted.

Keep in mind that importing an SMF is only part of the process. There will be no personal preferences represented. You'll still need to create a score from a template that is already built with artics and lye-berries. Again, copy-paste is the missing link-- only takes a sec. Sometimes, the score has mixed meters. Finale doesn't always copy over meter changes even though it says it will. When I open a template for a project with meter and key changes, I still have to go through the template to add the meter and key changes before doing the copy-paste process.

I guess I could get all in that I need and then Save Library as "Buzzy 2011" and I assume that when I do this again (like Wednesday) I could load that new library.

You could also just open your old template in v2011 complete with your favorite libraries from the previous version without the hassle of creating a whole new template.

Have fun, Dudemeister! Finale is great, but it can act like a precocious 8-year old at times if you don't keep your eye on it. Thankfully, it's gobs better at common tasks than it used to be.

[Frodo]

http://forum.makemusic.com

Great Finale resource and nice folks. The site is run by MakeMusic.

True, that. But we like the family around here!

You should also invest $100 for TG Tools. Don't ask. Just do it!

As of 6 March, there was this:
http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=320455" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TG Tools Pro Does Not Work With Finale 2011--- granted there are mixed reviews. Hmm.

$100 would also buy quite a lunch. (Just saying.)

I have to hold Frodo to the ground to let me pay for lunch. Fortunately, hobbitese are so short that's not a big problem. I do feel bad when I accidently pull his toe hairs. He really needs to trim them little guys...

We hobbits may be short, but we make up for it in agility. We'll tucker you out way before you can lay a finger or foot on us. Mess with me and I'll wear you out!!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

As of 6 March, there was this:
http://forum.makemusic.com/default.aspx?f=6&m=320455" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...
We hobbits may be short, but we make up for it in agility. We'll tucker you out way before you can lay a finger or foot on us. Mess with me and I'll wear you out!!

Oh yeah, hobbit with the flaxen toes!

TG Tools is working pretty much for me. Some minor tweaks needed but he hasn't done a paid update in YEARS. He has updated it a few times and will again. I'd still recommend it highly. What it does do, it does well and it does a lot.

[Frodo]

Oh yeah, hobbit with the flaxen toes!

Oh, no. Anything but MJ. Please.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

OK, how's 'bout some jzzz?

Actually, that was some pretty good jzzz after all. I'd watch the show just to hear the trio.

[buzzsmith]

http://forum.makemusic.com

Great Finale resource and nice folks. The site is run by MakeMusic.

Joined. Looks like a good source of information, for sure.

Everything seems to be going pretty smoothly...still working out some template details. I'll save it and start working on a song and realize that I didn't change the chord symbol font, for instance. So close the current doc and go back and alter the template!

Anyway, Frodo or MLC, one quick question to make sure that I'm not missing something in the SMF transfer between DP and Finale.

My normal workflow:

1. Create parts in DP...heavily quantize attacks and durations.
2. Eliminate all unused tracks.
3. Save as SMF.
4. Within Finale, open this file.
5. Finale presents me with a standard looking rendering (no Jazz font display, etc.).
6. I open my template and copy all of the rendered parts to the template and then add the key sigs, meter changes, double bar lines, etc.

I'm not doing an extra step here am I?

I want to use the Jazz or Broadway font, but importing a MIDI file doesn't give me that option on the initial rendering, correct?...or (obviously) any custom markings that I have in my template.

Thanks!

Buzzy

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Glad you like the site. I'm on there with my real name (Michael Mortilla). See you there i suppose...

I've worked many ways since 1996 in Finale, initially (read: my first effort in the program) having to transcribe SMFs from sequence files (Editrack [Atari] and Studio Vision Pro [Mac]) of quasi-orchestral scores that had to be in full notation for a symphony orchestra. Meter, tempo, and key changes were very frequent (silent film scores for Chaplin flicks). The process was laborious as I don't quantize - ever.

Subsequently, I've also tried sequencing in DP and pre-quantizing for Finale. Pretty good, but still lots of corrections and imports not always working as planned.

In my last project for the Chicago Symphony, I had to do three 25 minute scores and experimented. One score I did from a previous Finale file (the one I did in '96 but updated). The second score (new work) I started in DP as sequences. I quantized sections and even individual staves and lines, importing to Finale as SMFs (too bad DP doesn't have a COPY TO MIDI CLIPBOARD as Finale does as that would save a step). Then in the last score, I did the entire work in Finale and bypassed DP entirely.

It was the last score that got done the fastest and with the least amount of problems in general. I discovered that working in Finale (when I know I have to go to print) is much faster than sequencing in DP and porting it over. In very short works, any method can work, but in longer, more complex scores, I now ONLY use Finale. No DP whatsoever - again, that is ONLY when I know I have to go to print, otherwise I will certainly use DP.

I'm about to embark on 3 hours of scoring (for print) this week and won't even think of working in DP for that unless I have a theme or something that is burning a hole in my brain.

You are adding an extra step BTW. When you add anything to a Library in Finale, just keep working. Next time you want to update the TEMPLATE library, open the template and LOAD the library from the file you added the items to. You might also want to look at the Hyperscsribe feature. The quantize section are flexible and pretty accurate most of the time if your playing is accurate. For my money, I use SPEEDY ENTRY almost exclusively, with my left hand on the MIDI controller (Edirol PCR-800 kbd - on my desktop) and my right hand on the numeric keys of the Mac keyboard. I've printed the "SPEEDY ENTRY KEYBOARD COMMANDS" from the manual, taped to the top of the Editrol for fast reference. That is BY FAR the fastest entry method for me. Others love SIMPLE ENTRY, but I like the expanded features available in SPEEDY ENTRY.

You can indicate the default font in the TEMPLATE under DOCUMENT OPTIONS (not program options). Then every time you open the template, you can have whatever font you want as the default. Opening an SMF will directly will result in the normal engraver font, I believe. You might be able to import the SMF and paste into your template. I would think the font would change to the default for the document you're pasting into.

I'll ask Shooshie or James to move this thread to the composing area as it really is getting into the nitty gritty.

[buzzsmith]

Thanks, MLC!

I do use Speedy Entry but I don't have all of the shortcuts down yet.

I'll experiment a bit, too.

When I get the go-ahead on the next 2 or 3, I'll try one in DP and export and one directly in Finale and see which is fastest for me. I play pretty accurately so HyperScribe might also be an option.

Thanks for the input and I certainly have no problem with this topic being moved.

Buzzy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Frodo]

I almost always use DP to create SMFs because the fastest keyboard for note entry for me unquestionably resembles this one:



Why do I use DP to create SMFs? Because Finale's real-time MIDI note entry methods remain cumbersome and rather archaic, imho.

The process from my end means:

1. Creating a DP project with tracks in score order (as they will ultimately appear in Finale)

2. Making a copy of the DP project with all notes quantized to specific note values, and making sure the conductor track is activated with the proper key(s) and time sig(s)

3. Saving the quantized version of that DP project as an SMF (Type 1)

4. Opening the SMF in Finale with the understanding that what opens is a default score and not the final score

5. Fixing minor discrepancies with Finale quantization (of which there have consistently been very few unless the Finale quantization settings were not set properly)

6. Choosing or creating a template in Finale with the proper score layout, font, etc.

7. Copy/pasting note data from the Finale SMF to the Finale template

All of that sounds like a lot, but it takes me all of three minutes even with a 30-stave score for large orchestra--- not counting articulations, dynamics, and other Finale window dressing.

***

One thing I do as a rule is to tote all of my Finale files to the gigs for which those files were created. That also means using a laptop which doesn't have a keypad arranged in matrix form. Numerical entry on a laptop is a nightmare without dedicated hardware. This could be a non-issue for many users who do the bulk of their work on a desktop.

This is not to say that one way is better than another. It *is* to say that one way might be better for one person than it might be for another. My way is not the highway, but maybe it might point to methods that you'll either want to adopt or avoid.

The point is to think it all through in an effort to adopt the workflow combo that works best for you.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

This is very true, Frodo. Maybe I can watch you work one day and learn to change my ways? :)

I don't even have a laptop currently but couldn't you use a USB external numeric keypad? I'm just...

... almost time for lunch...

[Frodo]

... but couldn't you use a USB external numeric keypad? I'm just...

Yeah-- something else to be subjected to a TSA pat down.

Plus, by the time it comes to this, the editing is minor enough that it could be done with number lock or Fn commands.

... almost time for lunch...

Past it, rather.

[buzzsmith]

Thanks, Frodo, for your "side"!

I love you guys!

Buzzy

[Frodo]

This is very true, Frodo. Maybe I can watch you work one day and learn to change my ways?

There's nothing wrong with your workflow--- I meant to say that earlier. I should also say that the amount of time it takes is critical for me when refining my workflow. There are times when doing a choral score of 3-4 staves, it can take about the same amount of time to put everything through DP first and port it into Finale than it does to just work with Finale. I've not tried it, but it would be great if the lyrics would port from DP to Finale. In any case, things like chord changes (where needed) and harp notation are useless to deal with in DP if simplifying the Finale process is the goal. The larger the score, the faster it is for me to start in DP because I can play faster in DP than I can manage the key commands for Finale.

In most cases, while working in DP I'll crank up the tempo a bit just to save time with note entry. Once all the notes are in, I'll reset DP's tempo(s) to the proper bpm and then will proceed with whatever preps needed for SMF export.

But there are times when I'm miles from home and have little choice if a revision needs to be done. You recall my ordeal in The Netherlands a couple of years ago. I was sent several mp3s from which large orchestrations were to be created. The first rehearsal without the guest artist was spotless. The second rehearsal *with* the guest artist resulted in one of the songs needing to be transposed down a tri-tone because the guest artist sent me the wrong mp3. It wasn't as simple as just changing the key signature since most of the parts would display numerous notes below their ranges. The whole score had to be completely re-voiced and some melodic lines had to be completely reconceived. It was a proofing nightmare, but it ultimately worked out.

I should also say that there are different workflows and time expectations for different types of projects. I'll beat map mp3s in DP and then start playing the parts to the track just to have a better sense of how the orchestration fits with the basic arrangement represented on the mp3. When done, it's nice to play back the audio and virtual instruments concurrently.

If such a project is going directly to Finale, I won't bother with automation and will quantize the snot out of every note. If the project will be used for both audio purposes AND for Finale, I'll make a copy of the project. For Finale, I'll quantize one copy. For audio, I won't quantize the other copy but will tweak expressive automation like mad and run out stems.

Anyway, I'll have a gaggle of scores to knock out over the next few weeks. If you want, I could swing down at some point to show you how it all gets pulled together, then you can glean workflow elements in whole or in part as they suit your needs.

@buzz---

How's it going?