Music and Piracy

[shaman]

Hi Folks,
I want to share this article about music business:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/n ... eable.html
It's sad, but like I said in a topic a few days ago, piracy is hard to fight with prohibition (aka iloks in software, DRM in mp3, I think somepeople have fun breaking it and spreading it over the net). Maybe it is time to change the way to arrive to customers, like Radiohead's "Pay-What-You-Want":
http://www.cnet.com.au/was-radiohead-s- ... 284509.htm
Or it's time to get back to vinyl? Hmmm... I'm don't think so, someone will digitize it.

[Phil O]

Two statements in this article stick out like a sore (very sore) thumb:
"Giving MP3s away would require that record labels basically give up on studio recordings as a revenue channel."
and
"I reckon the record labels that will survive will be the labels that reinvent themselves as talent scouts and tour promoters."

It's kind of like what happened to typewriter companies when word processors came out. This is essentially describing the end of the recording business as we know it. So if nobody's going to pay for recorded music, who's going to record the music? The artists? Some are good at it, but those that aren't...

Yeah, I know, I'm stating the obvious, but come on. Something's gotta give.

Phil

[FMiguelez]

.

Piracy is "hard to fight with prohibition"?????
Then it's time to make more severe punishments. If prohibition doesn't work, lets up the consequences.

Those f**** parasite thieves should be imprisoned. Easy and simple.

Nobody will miss them anyway. They don't do anything useful for society either... they just suck up whatever they can steal. Like mosquitos. Like rats. Like fleas...

This way we would get rid of those useless members of society that all they bring to the table is... nothing. Only taking, never giving.

And yes. I hate them with all my soul. My modus-vivendi is seriously threatened because of these rats. So many businesses and talent are closing up and doing something else, thanks to these bastards. They've done enough damage already. This can not continue. Enough is enough!

[Phil O]

Yeah, FM, I see your point but as the article points out, it's just not cost effective. I hate these scumbags as much as you do, but the reality seems to be that they're unstoppable. I really am at a loss for any good solutions to this problem. My business is at stake, but I feel like there's nothing we can do about it. Sucks!

Phil

[James Steele]

Perhaps, but I shudder to think what would happen is "cost-effectiveness" was used as the primary criteria for enforcement efforts? I guess we could just give up and do nothing and remember the days when there was any semblance of financial incentive. Someone with the intelligence necessary to create worthwhile music has the intelligence to do something else more lucrative which will be just about anything. Me? I've made peace with the fact that I'll be destitute in my old age.

Just to throw out a crazy thought: it's probably not cost-effective to investigate and prosecute most serious crimes. For example if we just stopped prosecuting armed robbery and instead took all the money that it took to pay for all the law enforcement, legal/judicial and incarceration expenses and used it instead to compensate robbery victims for their losses, it might be cheaper. But at what point do we just throw out the idea that it's the "principle of the thing" in favor of economics? And once it's understood there are zero consequences for law breaking, will the inevitable increase in that activity challenge the validity of the original cost effectiveness calculations?

A society is truly beginning to lose its way and decline when "right and wrong" take absolute back seat to the balance sheet.

[Phil O]

Just to throw out a crazy thought: it's probably not cost-effective to investigate and prosecute most serious crimes...

Point taken. The issue here is that it is the legal fees to the record companies (or the artists) that's the problem. It seems that the legal system itself has no interest in prosecuting these crimes at all, as far as I can tell, unless some entity files suit. But I do see what you're saying.

Phil

[cowtothesky]

Just to throw out a crazy thought: it's probably not cost-effective to investigate and prosecute most serious crimes...

Point taken. The issue here is that it is the legal fees to the record companies (or the artists) that's the problem. It seems that the legal system itself has no interest in prosecuting these crimes at all, as far as I can tell, unless some entity files suit. But I do see what you're saying.

Phil

The justice dept just recently raided several websites that was posting pirated movies. So, at least some action is being taken. I think the key is to focus on the posters of the pirated material and their web hosts rather than the downloaders, which would be almost impossible and extremely expensive to prosecute.

[FMiguelez]

The justice dept just recently raided several websites that was posting pirated movies. So, at least some action is being taken. I think the key is to focus on the posters of the pirated material and their web hosts rather than the downloaders, which would be almost impossible and extremely expensive to prosecute.

There you go. That's a good way of doing this. And making an example out of these losers would make others think twice about it before considering becoming pirates.

Like James' "friend" , that San Diego Craig List varmint... I find it hard to believe he operates unbothered with no consequences.
If the FBI threatened CL and the likes with harsh action, then THEY would have to police their own sites. It think that would be most effective.

Maybe it is time to change the way to arrive to customers, like Radiohead's "Pay-What-You-Want"...Or it's time to get back to vinyl? Hmmm... I'm don't think so, someone will digitize it.

I think it's just simply time to pay for what you get. Honest, easy and simple.

[James Steele]

Problem is AFAIK, many of these sites are offshore and authorities in this country can't do to much. It's funny but it seems that now that the film industry is impacted more seems to be done. Back before widespread broadband Internet it seemed like the film industry was content to watch the music industry get mauled. Now that it's their ox getting gored there's some urgency.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

IMO piracy began when people were able to distribute freely and quickly via the web. Digital copy protection was poo poo'd and removed for the most part and sending files got easier with MP3s. Clearly, people didn't care about the quality of the tracks, just that they were free.

If digital piracy is to stop, there needs to be teeth to shut down ANY website that distributes illegal copies. The problem is that requires a 'big brother' approach like that in China and violates (or appears to violate) free speech in the USA. But do criminals have the right to MY free speech in the form of music?

Foreign sites that illegally distribute could, at best, be blocked from USA access, but the ISPs have to cooperate and again there are "rights issues" when it comes to such procedures.

Digital copying is only part of the problem. The bulk of the distribution is clearly via the www, and as great as the web is, it has also caused the decline of the music industry. It doesn't help that copyright owners don't always defend their product, or do so in silly ways, like suing a 9 year old or a 90 year old for millions, when it's a 30 year old bum in his underwear in Greasyspoon, Ohio who is reaping the profits from stolen material.

It also speaks to the integrity of the human race in terms of honesty. We all know dozens (or more) essentially honest people who wouldn't steal a penny candy but think nothing of downloading thousands of dollars in music, movies, software, and graphics. In that regard, a massive educational campaign is in order. It needs to be in the schools, in the churches, on TV, the radio, in print (mags and newspapers), and on every responsible site on the www.

At least that's what I think. I tell ya, I've brought over a dozen infringement suits on blatant pirates and not one of them has defended their actions. Their either hide in the shadows and stop distributing or cave and settle for way more than they ever made on my work. Sometimes more than I would have made on the work! In a few instances the fines were so stiff the businesses had to fold and in one case it was a guy in his underwear in PA! That Pennsylvania, not his pa... but that wouldn't surprise me either.

[shaman]

cowtothesky wrote:
The justice dept just recently raided several websites that was posting pirated movies. So, at least some action is being taken. I think the key is to focus on the posters of the pirated material and their web hosts rather than the downloaders, which would be almost impossible and extremely expensive to prosecute.

There you go. That's a good way of doing this. And making an example out of these losers would make others think twice about it before considering becoming pirates.

Do you remember when Metallica demanded Napster? Did it make any change? There were less piracy after that? And what about Pirate Bay? Please, read the part of "incidents":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay

Punishment is not enough...

[FMiguelez]

cowtothesky wrote:
The justice dept just recently raided several websites that was posting pirated movies. So, at least some action is being taken. I think the key is to focus on the posters of the pirated material and their web hosts rather than the downloaders, which would be almost impossible and extremely expensive to prosecute.

There you go. That's a good way of doing this. And making an example out of these losers would make others think twice about it before considering becoming pirates.

Do you remember when Metallica demanded Napster? Did it make any change? There were less piracy after that? And what about Pirate Bay? Please, read the part of "incidents":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pirate_Bay

Punishment is not enough...

Please learn how to use the quote features. Otherwise it's annoying figuring out who said what.

It didn't work because nobody else joined them in their effort. If MANY artists/bands would've done the same, at the same time, as a united front, it would've made a difference.

So what is YOUR suggestion then?

I liked what MLC wrote about anti-piracy and EDUCATION. Yes! This should be taught at schools (at all levels), preached at CHURCHES, etc.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Feel the guilt!

[shaman]

Please learn how to use the quote features. Otherwise it's annoying figuring out who said what.

Sorry FM for my mistakes.

It didn't work because nobody else joined them in their effort. If MANY artists/bands would've done the same, at the same time, as a united front, it would've made a difference.

So what is YOUR suggestion then?

I liked what MLC wrote about anti-piracy and EDUCATION. Yes! This should be taught at schools (at all levels), preached at CHURCHES, etc.

Yes, I agree with MLC too. Education is a powerful weapon, in less than two years I will be teaching music at high-school, and this will be one of my goals.
But this is not enough again. Record Labels have to take part of the responsibility of this subjet... They earned a lot of money selling a low quality media like CDs (dithering, poor sample rate...), and they earned a lot of money with contracts that didn't benefitted to musicians in most case. For example, I was in a band 12 years ago, and I recorded 2 or 3 discs for the band under an important internacional Record Label. Do you know how much the band earned for each sold CD? Nothing... yes, nothing. The band earned its money from live shows. That is steal too... or not?

[mikehalloran]

Someone once pointed out that downloading is legal in Canada. Yep. The US, too as far as I know.

Uploading is publishing. The broadest definition of publishing is to make something available to the public. For that, you need permission.