Plogue Bidule - One Topic to rule them all...

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I'm starting a sticky here in the composing forum about Plogue Bidule since it is very useful for composers and orchestrator types using DP. If you don't know what it is, ask or search this forum or the internet or their site:

http://www.plogue.com/phpBB2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please feel free to add threads or comments but please keep them related to Plogue Bidule and it's implementation in DP. Thanks!

Here's a good start:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... 26&t=40996" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When I have some more time I'll add a few more entries, like YouTube video links (the better ones!)

[MIDI Life Crisis]

So I guess I'm one step below preaching to the choir here - just talking to myself but when I start to disagree, it can be quite a show. LOL!

For the record, there is a major fringe benefit in Plogue Bidule in that when you freeze your VIs it will freeze ALL of them at once into a single audio track. That is a giant time saver for me. No it is not ideal by any means for control freaks, but for sending out quick and dirty sketches, cues, etc. it is so nice to be able to do and not in real time, as VIs like to freeze in DP usually.

But oh man, that o/p... what an A-hole! Maybe a Bb-hole as well...

[zed]

For the record, there is a major fringe benefit in Plogue Bidule in that when you freeze your VIs it will freeze ALL of them at once into a single audio track.

But that's only if you only have one stereo output set up, right? If you assign several outputs then you can freeze each output individually (though, admittedly, I have not gotten to the stage of actually testing this myself).

I created a template with 16 stereo outputs, and then realized that Bidule won't allow me to build the size of template I wanted to build without crashing. It is also limited (just like DP) by the 3.5GB limit of 32-bit applications. So I am now rethinking my Bidule template and going to make it much smaller and with probably 8 stereo outputs instead.

...for sending out quick and dirty sketches, cues, etc. it is so nice to be able to do and not in real time, as VIs like to freeze in DP usually.

I strongly recommend Audio Hijack Pro. That is the easiest way to capture quick mixes of whatever you are working on. It is much easier than fiddling around with routing assignments and then freezing or bouncing within DP. You just type in a name for the mp3 (or AIFF) file, and then start recording. It goes to wherever you want it to go on your hard drive, easy as pie.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I haven't tried that either but it would seem you are correct about bouncing per Bidule aux track. I also use Audio Hijack Pro but it is a real time bounce.

Clearly PB isn't the end all but for DP users like me who are stuck with an older G5 it is the only way I'm able to put as many VIs as I need without crashing DP. I still have to do a little research on the CPU impact even with PB but I know for sure it is far better than trying to make DP chew on multiple VIs.

Thanks for posting. I was getting a little uncomfortable replying to the o/p.

[zed]

I still have to do a little research on the CPU impact even with PB but I know for sure it is far better than trying to make DP chew on multiple VIs.

I don't think you can load more into Bidule than you could load into DP, but if you use it to load 2-3 GB of your most important bread and butter instruments that you want access to, then at least you have more room to work with in DP.

I'm also still testing the limits of Bidule and trying to figure out what I can get away with. Bidule is having problems with SampleTank, and I was really hoping load a bunch of SampleTank instances into it so that Bidule would act like just like an external module stocked with all my favorite sounds.

But alas, it seems like I will have to limit it to my favorite-favorite-favorite sounds. I'm actually thinking of limiting it to my favorite brass and strings, at this point, since those are instruments that I would like to have available in each project without thinking about which ones I need to load and where I can find them. Will also include an essential drum kit or two.

Thanks for posting. I was getting a little uncomfortable replying to the o/p.

Not sure everyone saw this thread. I'll add a note to the other one...

[MIDI Life Crisis]

While you can't load more into PB than you can into DP, the hit on the CPU is clearly far less with PB. Not my opinion, as you know.

MachFive2 was not behaving well in PB in my previous system (just redone from scratch) but now that I have the VST and AU as well as the MAS versions installed, M5 and PB seem to be playing well. As you mentioned, it is also possible to have some VIs in PB and others in DP - which is what I was doing for a while when M5 crashed PB.

PB is essentially a band-aid for me until I get a new machine. But for a lousy $75 it has extended the life of this old box well beyond its years.

[zed]

PB is essentially a band-aid for me until I get a new machine.

When I upgraded my computer from a G5 to a MacPro (about one year ago), I was quite disappointed to discover that the improvements in DP's handling of additional VIs and management of CPU seemed very minimal. Admittedly, I can now load numerous PLAY instruments at once, where loading 2-3 would be the limit on my G5. But for the most part, it feels like improvements were minimal, and here I am trying to get Bidule to help support DP so that I can avoid crashes.

Therefore, I think that rather than thinking of Bidule as a "band-aid" you should consider that you will probably want to maintain your Bidule template even after you get a new computer. You could continue to run the Bidule template from your G5 (for even more power) or just use Bidule on your MacPro... but the point is that you should probably try to think of it as a more permanent fixture in your workflow, and set up a template that you intend to continue using and can rely on for several years to come.

Even when we hit 64-bit and DP can handle limitless plugins, it would be nice to be able to avoid waiting for samples to load whenever you open a project. Maybe MOTU will introduce some sort of sample management someday, so that samples won't have to be reloaded in the case of a crash, or when loading a different project which uses the same instruments.

Probably a few years before those blissful moments.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Well a few respected members here have said that the newer Macs could handle a decent number of VIs and that was my source of information. I do plan on keeping the G5 as a sidecar for the VIs regardless and as such, they will be running in PB. But it is disheartening to hear the current Macs can't keep up.

[zed]

But it is disheartening to hear the current Macs can't keep up.

And I really don't really use very many VIs, actually. So it has been disheartening indeed.

But I believe I may have some gremlins, since I seem to experience more troubles than most. I have some kind of memory management issue, because sometimes just adding an additional VI instance (without any extra samples, or with a very tiny instrument loaded) can cause DP to flake out and crash consistently... and then removing that plugin instance will eliminate the flakey behavior and things will go back to normal. Sometimes DP announces "You have run out of memory" and then crashes.

But I just got a bunch more RAM, so I'm waiting to see if DP will handle things a little better now. So far so good... but I still keep my VI instances as lean as possible.

Speaking of memory management, I encourage everyone to make sure that they TURN ON the memory management feature in Kontakt, whether you are using it in DP or in Bidule. If you set the manager to flush samples manually, it will actually keep the samples stored. I just had to quit DP and relaunch it, and Kontakt (being used within DP) kept all the samples in memory and didn't require a lengthy reload when I reopened my project. Very nice!

It is turned off by default when you install Kontakt. Turn it on!! It is a good thing.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

See what I'm sayin... Memory management in K3? Who knew. I don't think I've even read the manual on that yet and I've been using it since it came out. I HAVE TO figure out the memory and CPU usage thing this week.

[Tripi]

You know, the memory management in Kontakt is great when it is used in Bidule too. I have 4 gig of Kontakt instruments loaded along side 4 gig of Play instrumets in my Bidule template. Since both instruments address outside memory, Bidule is actually using very little physical ram... but it's like having 8 gig loaded in one program. Seems to work great. Wish they would hurry up and get the 64 bit version of Bidule out for Mac.

[zed]

...along side 4 gig of Play instruments in my Bidule template.

What is the setting in PLAY in order to get it to access outside memory? Does it just do this automatically?

Since there isn't a specific setting like there is in Kontakt, I suppose it must just access outside memory without being asked. I'm curious as to whether the outside memory access is affected by the use of multiple Play instances. When it first came out, I remember reading that Play functioned more efficiently if each instrument resided in a separate instance of Play.

Wish they would hurry up and get the 64 bit version of Bidule out for Mac.

Are you suggesting that we could run a 64-bit version of Bidule while still running DP and its plugins in 32-bit mode? That would certainly be grand.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I tried the memory management thing this morning and lost all sound in PB. Apparently the Rewire bidule connection to DP got lost somehow. I disabled Memory Management and replaced the rewire bidule and got sound again.

Then I said to myself: "Self, if PB is hosting all the VIs then I can tell DP not to load them and then DP would load faster." Right? WRONG!

If I disable the VIs in DP, PB crashes at launch every time.

I'll go back and try the memory management thing later today and if I loose the rewire bidule again, I'll see if replacing it while the memory management is active does any good. Instruments certainly load a lot faster when it is active, but loosing the rewire bidule seems a bit odd.

[zed]

The Memory Manager might do strange things the first time you activate it. You are supposed to quit Kontakt after activating it so that it can take effect. Restarting your computer might also be a good idea

Then I said to myself: "Self, if PB is hosting all the VIs then I can tell DP not to load them and then DP would load faster." Right? WRONG!

If I disable the VIs in DP, PB crashes at launch every time.

Well that's just strange. I'm not sure why enabled or disabled VIs in DP would affect Bidule. Is that happening when you disable all of the VIs in DP? What if you only disable some of them?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I did restart to no avail. And the VI thing in DP is strange. I disabled all VIs and it asked if I wanted to restart the MOTU engine. I did. I also restarted the mac again after that. I'll play with it a bit later. I NEED COFFEE AND FOOD NOW!