does anyone use Scale Time?

[dpdan]

I highlight some MIDI notes in the SE window, then I use "scale time" to lengthen or shorten this phrase. When the Scale Time window opens,
all the current and end time info is correct except the "new end time". It is way higher. It used to be exactly the same as the "current end time" so when the window opens, you can immediately scroll to increase or decrease the value. The way it is now, I have to first scroll it manually to get close to the correct value, it's a real pain compared to how it used to work.
Is there some kind of default setting for this feature, it has been this way since 4.6 and I think it was this way in 4.52, but not 4.12.
I think it's broke
This was a huge time saver.
Any ideas ?

Thanks Dan

[magicd]

New End Time is based on the Time Scale Percentage. If the Time Scale Percentage is set to 100, the New End Time will match the Current End Time. The Time Scale Percentage is remembered when you close the Time Scale dialog.

Magic Dave

[dtobocman]

Love this feature... use it about 50 times a day... in 50 different ways.

[Shooshie]

Originally posted by dtobocman:
Love this feature... use it about 50 times a day... in 50 different ways.

Same here. Well... maybe 2 or 3 times a day. Sometimes more. It's a powerful tool. It used to be much more difficult to use, actually. I had to use a calculator a lot to find the exact ratios to get what I wanted, and was thrilled when the selection just popped into a perfect fit. Now it's got more options and is very easy to use. A client I used to work with a lot would always comment on the fact that our work was scientifically and mathematically accurate. An old-school composer and performer, he would say it with pride, because he was impressed that I was lining things up with a calculator, the last tool he ever figured on using for arranging music.

Shooshie

<small>[ August 02, 2005, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Shooshie ]</small>

[dtobocman]

Been there too, Shooshie... Music by calculator...

[dpdan]

thanks Dave and everybody! That works!
dpDan

[Artspoke]

Unfortunately, there's a bug with the scale time feature when applied to audio... it creates the strangest bedlam I've ever heard in my life! If only it worked

I've had the hardest time of my life trying to get to the bottom of this bug, but, I've finally thrown in the towel. I don't think anyone is aware of this bug, and those users who are don't seem to need it as badly as I do, so I keep getting advice like, "find a better drummer", instead of support to petition MOTU for a fix.

The fact is, my studio is small, and not all my clients are virtuoso players, nor have the budget to record dozens of takes to get the best performances. The ethics are debateable, but I had thought these forums were, in part, for diagnosing and identifying problems, and then, just maybe, suggesting workarounds.

I'm not starting a flame here. I was merely excited to see some post about time scale, and had hoped it was to reignite the time stretch bug. But it's not, so congrats on finding a solution here.

I have an idea, but it seems to be lost on MOTU, due to the fact that they had the idea first, and then implemented it into DP - except it's broken!

If anyone's interested, reply at will, I'd like nothing more than to get to the bottom of it once and for all.

-James

[dtobocman]

What bug?

[Shooshie]

Well, you're right... I don't know about it. Can you describe it?

Shooshie

[Artspoke]

Sorry for slow response - been very busy!

It's found within several operations within DP, that seem to hover arond time scaling.

I have read many posts over the last sveral months that describe a bunch of digital diahrea that get created when performing tasks which create new files, such as Scale Time, Spectral Effects, etc. - faster than realtime "print" functions.

The digital mess of a creation is difficult to describe, but the timing goes to mix of 50% or slower to 200% or faster, in randomly fluctuating bursts. Have you ever noticed, after using the sideways (time stretch) hand, that the file isn't exactly as long as you asked it to be stretched? I've noticed errors like this as small as a few samples to as long as a minute or more! The resulting file is not the same length as it should be.

I began to discover this while trying to reduce the error across some drum tracks. I posted a bunch in a few strong running threads, but I think what I was trying to accomplish with DP was more compicated than most wanted to delve into, and so the point got lost amongst an array of pontential user error, or system setup errors.

I have tried the following on five completely different systems, two of which I had never laid my hands on before. Each time I got the "bug" result. I can get DP to create these really crazy results in a number of ways, but this one seems to be the easiest. Since multitrack recordings of drumset seem to be a good source of really seeing this go, that's what I recommend for easist aural/visual proof.

1) Turn the grid on to whole notes

2) One at a time, grab each soundbite of a multitrack drums take, and drag (sideways hand/time stretch) its right edge one bar longer than the track originally was. I.e., if the files all originally ended at 100 I 1 I 000, hold Command (forcing the stretch command to snap to whole notes), and stretch each track to end exactly at 101 I 1 I 000.

3) By now you should have experienced many strange things, and will begin to understand what I'm getting at. I have been trying to find a solution to this for quite some time, and can't (see my other posts, they're almost all related to this problem).

Thanks,
-James

P.S., I tried turning off the Pure DSP option in the SB window, and it seems to have no effect.

[croftish]

Hey Artspoke, you speak of something I noticed a long time ago but never even thought of raising. I guess it's because with a little trial and error you can get your time stetch to fit, and in most cases in the real world, it's good enough and then forgotten about until the next time
But you're right, it's not really good enough is it? It should be spot on. For me it's an occasional annoyance, but obviously for others it's far more than that.
What's the 'official' response from MOTU on this issue BTW? You say they claim to have fixed it?

Croftish

[Timeline]

Is he's describing the issue with digital audio where streching one end of a sound file leaves the other end un-anchored and out of sync slightly. Is that a MIDI thing too.?

<small>[ August 08, 2005, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: Timeline ]</small>

[dtobocman]

Yeah... sometimes when you stretch a soundbite, sometimes it comes up a bit short (a tick or two). sometimes it adds a bit of the beginning of the sample at the end. It's not completely perfect.

That said, I've never had to fudge something where it was detectable to me, a client, or the listener down the line. To say that the feature doesn't work is totally out of line, IMO. I've been using time stretch in DP for fun and profit to great effect for years now. Just leave that 2-tick gap, move on, and I swear, your ears will fill in that gap and you'll never hear it in the greater context. CONTEXT, y'know?

... and the thing about stetching abouve 200% or beloiw 50%... Methinks the lady dost protest too much.

[Artspoke]

Yes! See - there's the proof.

Now, the part of DP that causes this bug is also responsible for trouble using Scale Time, Groove Quantize, Spectral Effects, Quantize (beats within audio), and a few others!

If someone in the know can spot this one little bug, these larger, more intensive batch uses (such as in Groove Quantize, when it uses this broken engine between every beat), should begin working as advertised!

Thanks!
-James

[Artspoke]

It must be something about me that kills a good thread.

If there can be no solution, then at least be warned: you cannot accurately scale time on audio flies with DP.

By "accurately" above, I mean "sample accurate" which is what is advertised. You may not be able to understand why this could be useful, but MOTU must, or they wouldn't have bothered to mention it. I need it, and would love to hear from anyone who has a suggestion about how I can find a piece of software that works.

Thanks,
-James

P.S., Ideally, I'd like to be able to identify WE beats at a rate of one per musical beat on phase correated multrack recordings, and then quantize the audio to a different tempo map/grid than that of the material - and retain phase correlation between the tracks. It's not even a little interesting to me to hear about how a difference as small as one sample is "ok", nor do I care to be asked what moral reason I have for wanting such a feature. We all actually need it, and somehow no one can see that.