Best (small file size) Qucktime format for DP?

[magnumpraw]

Has anyone ever tried different quicktime codecs to see which DP handles the best?

Here's the reason I'm asking:
My mode of working has always been to get a DVD output of the show from the studio and then rip it to a .mov file using DVDxDV. I've always used the "imovie" setting which ends up giving me uncompressed video which translates to a whopping 10GB for a 40 min show.

I'd really like to shrink the file size to facilitate easier uploading/downloading on the web to different people at our studio. I've tried using Handbrake to encode the show (using the Universal preset), but it will only output a .mp4 file. Unfortunately DP only recognized .mov files. I can however change the suffix from .mp4 to .mov and DP will load and play the file.

The problem that I ran into was that DP started acting really sluggish with that video loaded. If I reload the uncompressed video to the same session, it works fine again. I'm using a 2009 Nehalem 2.9GHz Mac Pro, so horsepower is as high as possible.

I'd really like to find a 1 step process to rip a video from the DVD I'm given from the studio to a file weighing in roughly around 1-1.5GB.

Anybody have any suggestions?

[ccrane]

Has anyone ever tried different quicktime codecs to see which DP handles the best?

Here's the reason I'm asking:
My mode of working has always been to get a DVD output of the show from the studio and then rip it to a .mov file using DVDxDV. I've always used the "imovie" setting which ends up giving me uncompressed video which translates to a whopping 10GB for a 40 min show.

I'd really like to shrink the file size to facilitate easier uploading/downloading on the web to different people at our studio. I've tried using Handbrake to encode the show (using the Universal preset), but it will only output a .mp4 file. Unfortunately DP only recognized .mov files. I can however change the suffix from .mp4 to .mov and DP will load and play the file.

The problem that I ran into was that DP started acting really sluggish with that video loaded. If I reload the uncompressed video to the same session, it works fine again. I'm using a 2009 Nehalem 2.9GHz Mac Pro, so horsepower is as high as possible.

I'd really like to find a 1 step process to rip a video from the DVD I'm given from the studio to a file weighing in roughly around 1-1.5GB.

Anybody have any suggestions?

The best codec for me is MotionJPEG A at medium quality.
I've tried several codecs and this was the winner on my system.
I don't know of a 1 step DVD rip process that will get you that format though.
I use QuicktimePro to convert when necessary.

[jjhp3]

fwiw, my research and experience led me to use photoJPEG at source frame rate @ 75% quality - it is small, accurate and ready to scrub.

John

[newrigel]

Has anyone ever tried different quicktime codecs to see which DP handles the best?

Here's the reason I'm asking:
My mode of working has always been to get a DVD output of the show from the studio and then rip it to a .mov file using DVDxDV. I've always used the "imovie" setting which ends up giving me uncompressed video which translates to a whopping 10GB for a 40 min show.

I'd really like to shrink the file size to facilitate easier uploading/downloading on the web to different people at our studio. I've tried using Handbrake to encode the show (using the Universal preset), but it will only output a .mp4 file. Unfortunately DP only recognized .mov files. I can however change the suffix from .mp4 to .mov and DP will load and play the file.

The problem that I ran into was that DP started acting really sluggish with that video loaded. If I reload the uncompressed video to the same session, it works fine again. I'm using a 2009 Nehalem 2.9GHz Mac Pro, so horsepower is as high as possible.

I'd really like to find a 1 step process to rip a video from the DVD I'm given from the studio to a file weighing in roughly around 1-1.5GB.

Anybody have any suggestions?

Check out MPEG Streamclip... it has some parameter adjustments to get the file size down... as far down as you want to go. If it's just for hit points, high quality is negligible to a degree.

[magnumpraw]

Thanks for the replies.
I'll try those out. Yeah, quality is kinda 3rd priority after "scrub readiness" and file size.

Would love to hear anyone else's experience or favorite codecs.

[audios]

The problem that I ran into was that DP started acting really sluggish with that video loaded. If I reload the uncompressed video to the same session, it works fine again. I'm using a 2009 Nehalem 2.9GHz Mac Pro, so horsepower is as high as possible.

I'd really like to find a 1 step process to rip a video from the DVD I'm given from the studio to a file weighing in roughly around 1-1.5GB.

Anybody have any suggestions?

If I get an uncompressed video I always need to downsize if the producer sends me that large of a file. Most of the time i send out a "spec sheet" to the producer/editor so they can be sure to get me what i need in the first place. See specs below;

If not exporting OMF files, please use this method.
If not working with OMF files, please consolidate and export each track separately as AIFF, SDII, BWAV or as .WAV with the 2-pop in each track at the same precise frame location (and to match visual 2-pop if inserted into video). Also, consolidate tracks into one continuous file and make sure that dialog is separate from all SFX, music and ambient tracks and so forth. Organize all the audio before exporting. For example, all sound effects should be on one mono or stereo track, all dialog on one track, all music on one or two tracks, etc. You may have more that one track each, just as long as they are labeled accordingly.

One Quicktime .MOV in H.264 compression in the frame rate of the final cut
QT movie should include just dialog as the audio in 16/48K in MONO w/2-pop, head and tail
Program should have a window burn of timecode located at the very top or bottom of “Title safe”.
Program Time Code window burn should start at the first frame on the QT movie and start at 00: hour.
Quicktime movie should be sized at 440 X 247 and letter-boxed if necessary. And no larger that 2GB in size
Program should have 2 seconds of black prior to first audio or first picture and Time Code should start in black.
Program should have all titles or at least the appropriate hole of black for open and close.
If you are uploading this print for all post audio, make sure that all involved are working on the SAME print.


I have found that the H.264 .MOV works great. usually a 90-minute feature is around 5-6GB with a decent resolution. I do refer to the uncompressed .DV for clips that are shot at night and hard to spot SFX. haven't used the Motion/JPEG yet, may give that a try too. For most of my work i need frame accuracy for sync and fold down mixes. Not sure how stable a motion/JPEG is??? But for overall quality and performance with DP, the H.264 codec is the best one I have found. And i store the sync movie on a different hard drive that the DP project. Seams to run faster that way.

QuickTime Pro can do all the conversions for you and its cheap.

Hope this helps some too.

[jjhp3]

great info - small point, which seem irrelevant to your successful and extensive experience - h.264 is compressed in "blocks" while photoJPEG compresses each frame of the video. I like to know that when I'm spotting or any to-video sound work I do. True scrubbing...

John

[newrigel]

great info - small point, which seem irrelevant to your successful and extensive experience - h.264 is compressed in "blocks" while photoJPEG compresses each frame of the video. I like to know that when I'm spotting or any to-video sound work I do. True scrubbing...

John

...like an image sequence (.jpg) within a container.

[ccrane]

haven't used the Motion/JPEG yet, may give that a try too. For most of my work i need frame accuracy for sync and fold down mixes. Not sure how stable a motion/JPEG is??? But for overall quality and performance with DP, the H.264 codec is the best one I have found.

great info - small point, which seem irrelevant to your successful and extensive experience - h.264 is compressed in "blocks" while photoJPEG compresses each frame of the video. I like to know that when I'm spotting or any to-video sound work I do. True scrubbing...

John

Motion JPEG A is very stable in DP- and frame accurate, that's why I have always used it.
Recently I used h.264 on a 82 min movie in DP and had no sync or frame accuracy issues.
But that block compression sounds rather unfriendly!
When I tested different codecs in DP a few years ago M-JPEG A came out on top.
h.264 was in it's infancy then so I never really looked into it, but out of curiosity I just ran a codec shoot-out between h.264 & M-JPEG A. I exported the same clip using both codecs at medium quality in the .mov format.
I wanted to see how they would compare- size wise, quality wise and in snappitude.
Not surprisingly the newer h.264 file is smaller - by 1/3.
They both step and scrub forward and backwards fast and accurately, but with the h.264 clip being 1/3 the size of the MJPEG clip, I would imagine the CPU hit would be lower? This could depend on your computer chip too perhaps (i.e G5 preferring older codec).
The MJPEG A clips, exported at the same medium quality, had more undesirable digital artifacts than the h.264 clip.
So in my little comparison, h.264 appears to be a better format, block compression aside.
Thanks Jim and John for info, and Jim for that awesome spec sheet.

[newrigel]

haven't used the Motion/JPEG yet, may give that a try too. For most of my work i need frame accuracy for sync and fold down mixes. Not sure how stable a motion/JPEG is??? But for overall quality and performance with DP, the H.264 codec is the best one I have found.

great info - small point, which seem irrelevant to your successful and extensive experience - h.264 is compressed in "blocks" while photoJPEG compresses each frame of the video. I like to know that when I'm spotting or any to-video sound work I do. True scrubbing...

John

Motion JPEG A is very stable in DP- and frame accurate, that's why I have always used it.
Recently I used h.264 on a 82 min movie in DP and had no sync or frame accuracy issues.
But that block compression sounds rather unfriendly!
When I tested different codecs in DP a few years ago M-JPEG A came out on top.
h.264 was in it's infancy then so I never really looked into it, but out of curiosity I just ran a codec shoot-out between h.264 & M-JPEG A. I exported the same clip using both codecs at medium quality in the .mov format.
I wanted to see how they would compare- size wise, quality wise and in snappitude.
Not surprisingly the newer h.264 file is smaller - by 1/3.
They both step and scrub forward and backwards fast and accurately, but with the h.264 clip being 1/3 the size of the MJPEG clip, I would imagine the CPU hit would be lower? This could depend on your computer chip too perhaps (i.e G5 preferring older codec).
The MJPEG A clips, exported at the same medium quality, had more undesirable digital artifacts than the h.264 clip.
So in my little comparison, h.264 appears to be a better format, block compression aside.
Thanks Jim and John for info, and Jim for that awesome spec sheet.

I believe H264 uses DSP to decompress on the fly in real time. It's a native format and the frameworks are part of OS X... not a plugin like MPEG 2 or any of the other codecs.

[audios]

great info - small point, which seem irrelevant to your successful and extensive experience - h.264 is compressed in "blocks" while photoJPEG compresses each frame of the video. I like to know that when I'm spotting or any to-video sound work I do. True scrubbing...

John

With a project currently underway, I decided to give the M-JPEG-A a spin and do a comparison straight up with the H.264 I already was using. Not surprisingly, block or frame compression, no differences really. The sync was spot on throughout the film and the picture quality was very close but leaning a little more toward the M-JPEG for overall picture quality. The one thing i did notice is that the H.264(90.9 MB-H.264, 159MB-M-JPEG for a 2-minute trailer) is a smaller file size and the compression runs a little faster in sync with DP on my rig. May be different with all of you in a PRO Macs with SL. I'm just not there right now in this economy.

I also window burn every project that's running in DP or ProTools through FCP so i always have a visual que with the QT movie in either DAW and scrubbing has never been a problem even as blocked compression. Frame accurate throughout. Also have had success with Media-100 compressions too on shorter projects.

[Mr_Clifford]

+1 to Motion JPeg A.

H.264 uses a lot more CPU to decompress (the trade-off for the smaller file size), and I would think that CPU is a more valuable, limited resource than hard-drive space.

[ccrane]

+1 to Motion JPeg A.

H.264 uses a lot more CPU to decompress (the trade-off for the smaller file size), and I would think that CPU is a more valuable, limited resource than hard-drive space.

Thanks for that, I've been scouring the web trying to find that specific info.

[audios]

Thanks for that, I've been scouring the web trying to find that specific info.

I think whatever works best in whatever system you have is the answer. Right now, given my signature info block, it's really a wash between the H.264 and M-JPEG compressions. Watching my activity monitor and CPU monitor the drag on my G5 is the same.

If I lived in a very computer wealthy world it would be SMPTE sync to an 10-bit uncompressed D-2 roll or Digi-beta and blowing it all through a 6-foot LCD flat panel with a couple of leather client couches and all the Chardonay they could drink. But, humbly, its truly my little room which i am happier than I ever was in that boutique audio suite in LA.

[smithshane]

Thanks for that, I've been scouring the web trying to find that specific info.

I think whatever works best in whatever system you have is the answer. Right now, given my signature info block, it's really a wash between the H.264 and M-JPEG compressions. Watching my activity monitor and CPU monitor the drag on my G5 is the same.

If I lived in a very computer wealthy world it would be SMPTE sync to an 10-bit uncompressed D-2 roll or Digi-beta and blowing it all through a 6-foot LCD flat panel with a couple of leather client couches and all the Chardonay they could drink. But, humbly, its truly my little room which i am happier than I ever was in that boutique audio suite in LA.

Yes, h.264 codec would be a nice choice.