Advice on audio analysis sought.

[Larry Mal]

I know this isn't directly related to DP, but I usually find I can get top notch professional level advice on this site regardless. Say what you will about DP's smaller user base, but those that do use it tend to be pretty knowledgeable.

Anyway, I'm looking for some tools for audio analysis. I have these two at the moment:

http://www.nugenaudio.com/visualizer.php

And:

http://www.audiofile-engineering.com/spectre/

And I have some familiarity with SpectraFoo as well. But I'm wondering if I haven't missed something in the family of analyzers other than these three.

The analyzers I have are good, and very useful for mixing. However for what I'm wanting to do they have limitations, that is, they are all geared towards real time analysis. What I want to be able to do is to graph the measurements that I am getting from them easily, and none of these seem to be able to do this (maybe SpectraFoo, I have the demo but don't know yet if it does this).

So I guess I'm throwing a two part question out there, 1) is there another audio analyzer that I should consider and 2) what's a good way to get a summing graphing of the results of my analysis?

I'll mention that this came out of an irritating thread I was caught up in on another audio site regarding the "sound" of one DAW compared to another (Pro Tools and DP in this case). I never said any sort of opinion about it, except that if one couldn't get a good mix with either of them then it was incredibly unlikely to be the DAW's fault. But I did point out to folks that there are ways to measure the differences between one DAW and another, nulling certainly (which was regarded as voodoo on this site), but also by measuring and analyzing the results from both platforms. So you see I would need something pretty sensitive here.

Now, I no longer care about this, those chickens can keep on clucking without me, but I still want to have the capabilities to measure such things if I want to (and any other audio related things as well). So, if anyone has any thoughts, as always, thanks and good luck to you all.

[wurliuchi]

I have no idea if it will do what you want, but check out Blue Cat Audio's stuff.

http://www.bluecataudio.com/Main/Home/

[Larry Mal]

That certainly does look like good stuff. I'll demo it, thanks a lot.

[FMiguelez]

...But I did point out to folks that there are ways to measure the differences between one DAW and another, nulling certainly (which was regarded as voodoo on this site), but also by measuring and analyzing the results from both platforms. So you see I would need something pretty sensitive here.

For this you would probably need a very specialized tool. Something that may not be pretty to look at, but will tell you certain "hidden" things. I seem to recall Bob Katz talking about this very subject, on how he has tested these different aspects among DAWS, converters, chains, etc. I can't remember if it was in his book (2nd edition), or somewhere in Gear Slutz.
It had to do with anal measurements on engineering things (how DAWs sum and pass the 0's and 1's along, etc.)

I'd thumb through his book first because it could have been there where I read it. Otherwise, it's in GS for sure. Perhaps you can even email him asking about it. He's an extremely nice guy, and obviously knowledgeable and helpful.

Regarding the "regular" analyzers, I use Waves' one. Nothing amazing. It's what I use because that's what I have, but it does a pretty decent job, I suppose.
You might want to check it out just to see it, but I'm pretty sure you'll find other analyzers more complete and with more features.

[Larry Mal]

Gracias, senor! That's a great suggestion since I already own that book... and used it for a class... and, uh, didn't read it like I should have. But I'm not against reading- I read most of the back of a cereal box just today.

Maybe I'll keep that to myself if I email Mr. Katz, however. Gracias una vez más!

[cbergm7210]

Try this one, I use it all the time:

http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=26

[Larry Mal]

Thanks my friend- I'll take a look at that one. I really like the Stillwell Spectro:

http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=32

You're not too far from me in High Ridge are you? I'm in St. Louis- what with the ten degree nights we've been having, plenty of time to study up on audio things. Thanks for the suggestion- happy holidays.

[cbergm7210]

Thanks my friend- I'll take a look at that one. I really like the Stillwell Spectro:

http://www.stillwellaudio.com/?page_id=32

You're not too far from me in High Ridge are you? I'm in St. Louis- what with the ten degree nights we've been having, plenty of time to study up on audio things. Thanks for the suggestion- happy holidays.

All right, a local friend! Nice to meet you, Larry!

Chris

[HCMarkus]

Larry, if the folks on the forum you mention think the null test is voodoo I'd neither be very interested in their opinions about anything having to do with audio nor swayed by whatever prejudices they exhibit.

[Larry Mal]

Oh, I'm not... it became clear at some point that the scientific laws of how sound works on this planet was not going to overcome the placebo syndrome that was making these folks swear they heard differences that they insisted couldn't be measured or quantified. Apparently though, these phenomena were real as concrete, but could only be perceived by people with the proper "ears"... it was like the Force or something.

This is just an academic exercise for me. I was insisting that if there are differences between DAWs, then they can be measured. And so I got to wondering about what tools I could use to measure the differences or the lack of differences, purely for my own amusement. And so far most of the tools I've found are either designed for mixing or for measuring the acoustic characteristics of spaces, and so I thought I'd give a shout out to see what I was missing.

What I had thought about doing, was to run a series of tests in various DAWs and make video of the real time results, slowed down immensely. But there has to be an easier way to graph things than that, but I don't know what it is. Obviously it's pretty specialized stuff, but I'll look through Bob Katz' book later and maybe see what he's got to offer.

[wurliuchi]

One way to do this is to import the same sixteen tracks (at least sixteen but you can use more) into two different DAWs. Use source material that when combined fills the frequency spectrum. Make sure the DAWs have the same pan law (in DP you can use FreeG for this). Match each tracks' pan and fader positions in both DAWs. Stay away from unity. For example, track-1 can be set to -2; track-2 set to +3, and so on, but they have to match between DAWs. Bounce or realtime both to disc and import them into the same DAW and scope them out. Blue Cat is good at this because you can see both mixes side by side on the scope. And you can very much isolate and zoom in on particular frequency bands and set thresholds. Of course, if you first do a null test and they null out there's no point in scoping them.

[Larry Mal]

I had a similar thought as to testing the sound out. I wasn't going to use 16 tracks though, but only three, at least for the test for panning. At least at first. I wonder why you picked 16?


I don't recommend anyone get involved in this, it was a fantastic waste of my time. But you can see if you want what I was up against and what I suggested as far as testing out the hypothesis. But all I got was more nonsense. It's still going on, but I'm out of it, but I am still intrigued by the concepts I put together around page ten of the thing.


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... ormer.html

[wurliuchi]

I had a similar thought as to testing the sound out. I wasn't going to use 16 tracks though, but only three, at least for the test for panning. At least at first. I wonder why you picked 16?


I don't recommend anyone get involved in this, it was a fantastic waste of my time. But you can see if you want what I was up against and what I suggested as far as testing out the hypothesis. But all I got was more nonsense. It's still going on, but I'm out of it, but I am still intrigued by the concepts I put together around page ten of the thing.


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... ormer.html

I use sixteen tracks because that's the minimum I ever use in a mix and I like to do real-world testing. Anyway, I do find all this interesting to a point and then I'm out. I've done enough of this to know it's not worth my time. It makes no difference in my mixes or final mastered product, so I'd much rather concentrate on getting work done and making some money. My clients don't pay me for testing.

I never go to GS. As it is, I spend too much time here. But at least that helps me use DP more efficiently. I try not to waste time with stupid never-ending arguments. I'm glad that's kept to a minimum on this forum.