Under appreciated composers

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Leroy Anderson

Ian Anderson

George Antheil

[Frodo]

Ahem... Carl Stalling adapted the works of Raymond Scott. Did you even mention him?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Scott

As a matter of fact, no-- I didn't mention him-- but I'm glad YOU did.

I'm hoping that we all can share names of composers that you just don't hear about every day, but whose music is:

1. Heard but taken for granted in some way
2. Highly influential of perhaps "better known" composers

We all run across songs and compositions in every imaginable musical style but rarely get to share those names. So, I hope you don't mind my picking your brain and the brains of others. I just find this very fascinating.

[chunkdz]

A must have is "The Carl Stalling Project". 40 or so tracks handpicked by producer Hal Willner, including some outtakes that show just how difficult some of those cues were to play. Great fun to listen to.

[chunkdz]

And put my vote down for Hoyt Curtin where theme songs are concerned. Brilliant.

[Jim]

A must have is "The Carl Stalling Project". 40 or so tracks handpicked by producer Hal Willner, including some outtakes that show just how difficult some of those cues were to play. Great fun to listen to.

Along similar lines: http://bagsby.com/page8.html

[Movies]

As far as under appreciated composers go, I have to go with Ruth Crawford Seeger. The second movement of her 1931 String Quartet pretty much informs my entire worldview. The score sits on my desk permanently as if it's just another reference book.

[kinnylandrum]

I just heard a piece called "String Symphony" by Ned Rorem. Brilliant. Like a cross between Bernard Herrmann and Bartok. You simply must hear this piece:
http://www.lala.com/#album/446785230658 ... tral_Works

[billf]

I'm a strange person. I like Stones.

I like turtles?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y

[wrathy]

John Harbison!

[Frodo]

John Harbison!

Dude-- Harbison is revered~

He is an icon and a favorite--- but is he "under-appreciated"?

I was preparing for a concert which included a work by composer Lee Hoiby. The man is a genius-- and one of the kindest souls walking the planet today.

I had some questions about the score and needed to contact him. I left messages here and there, sent e-mails-- etc. Would you believe the man called me at home? We talked for an hour. This man has been a hero of mine since at least 1976-- AND HE CALLED ME!!

He shared a story about an opera he'd written-- it was a commission for the Metropolitan Opera. But in true "snob fashion", the Met put him on contingency status. That meant that there would be one read-through at which point a thumbs up or thumbs down would be given.

Lee told me that they liked the opera but rejected it because it didn't reflect the compositional trend of the time, typical of younger composers.

Lee is a genius. He's a younger contemporary of Samuel Barber, Ned Rorem, Lukas Foss. Take those three, add some "edge", and you get Lee.

All that to say this: I'd put Lee Hoiby in the "under-appreciated" category before I put the noble and revered Harbison.

Wrathy-- I'm deeply moved that you had the presence of spirit to bring up Harbison. Thanks for that!

LOL-- I'll wager that half the people on this forum have no idea what or whom we're talking about!

But that's okay.

If no one else appreciates Harbison's works, you and I do!!

[Movies]

I have never heard Hoiby!

I'm a definite Barber fan, though, so I'll be sure and check his stuff out.

That's awesome that you got to chat with him -- I feel like meeting/interacting personally with artists one loves and respects can be a bad scene sometimes; it's great to hear that you had such a positive experience!

[wrathy]

John Harbison!

Dude-- Harbison is revered~

He is an icon and a favorite--- but is he "under-appreciated"?

I was preparing for a concert which included a work by composer Lee Hoiby. The man is a genius-- and one of the kindest souls walking the planet today.

He shared a story about an opera he'd written-- it was a commission for the Metropolitan Opera. But in true "snob fashion", the Met put him on contingency status. That meant that there would be one read-through at which point a thumbs up or thumbs down would be given.

Lee told me that they liked the opera but rejected it because it didn't reflect the compositional trend of the time, typical of younger composers.

Frodo,

I guess "revered" status is relative, but I see your point. I was listening to "The Most Often Used Chords" when I was writing that post. I guess I just wish I heard his name come up more in "the great contempo composer" discussion a bit more.

I had heard the story of the rejected Met opera from another neglected composer, Lewis Spratlan. He won the Pulitzer Prize for an opera that has never been staged (but performed in concert form). I can't even imagine that much work, only to have everything come apart...

Was that before or after Harbison's "Great Gatsby" which I think premiered in `99 ?

I have mixed feelings about the Met. I go at least four times a year. Its one of the best houses in the world. Yet.....do we need another 12 Tosca's a season (especially the most recent production? Why do the opera houses insist on putting new shoes on those old socks? It does not makes the socks any "newer.")?

I will check out Hoiby.

Can you direct me to two or three works?

Also, if you are interested:
http://www.andrewrathbun.com/Chamber%20 ... vt%202.mp3
(so shameless of me...)

Best.

[Frodo]

I have mixed feelings about the Met. I go at least four times a year. Its one of the best houses in the world. Yet.....do we need another 12 Tosca's a season (especially the most recent production? Why do the opera houses insist on putting new shoes on those old socks? It does not makes the socks any "newer.")?

Because that's what people pay for. Those who still support opera houses in terms of "the big bucks" could care less about new operas and can more easily fill seats with Puccini, Verdi, and Mozart.

Another part of it is that you'd be surprised by the number of people who've never seen a classic production at the Met. I've only been TWICE in my entire life and want to go a lot more. It must be tough when you're local and would like to go but keep bumping into the same repertoire at every turn.

I will check out Hoiby.

Can you direct me to two or three works?

Kind of hard to do--- there are a number of things on youtube, but few are my faves for as nice as they are. There's The Tempest, and a host of songs--- many of which were recorded and performed regularly by Leontyne Price in recital.

Hoiby set part of Martin Luther King's speech, I Have A Dream brilliantly, which I've conducted it several times-- it's a "tour de force" for baritone and orchestra. Another benchmark work is his first opera, The Scarf with its dark subject matter. Great story-- don't want to give any spoilers, but a woman is lonely as her husband hunts for food for days and days at a time. She begins to spin yarn and makes a scarf to pass the long hours, but her yearnings "casts a spell" that brings a stranger to her door-- and they, well-- you know.... "get busy" much to the chagrin of her husband when he returns. Of course, she gives the stranger the scarf she made in hopes that he'll return, but he never does.

Also, if you are interested:
http://www.andrewrathbun.com/Chamber%20 ... vt%202.mp3
(so shameless of me...)

Best.

Nice piece! I like the juxtaposition of flavors-- 20c classical with certain essences of jazz, but decidedly American. There is also a certain nod to early Berg as well, unless I'm missing the point entirely. But I really enjoy the lyricism-- particularly with how you use the descending major third melodically. There a moments when that occurs which I cannot consider "accidental", so to speak. I hear that interval used that way more as a unifying element rather than something taking place by mere happenstance.

There's a flavor of "sadness" about this work, for lack of a better description-- but it's always interesting, which is what I like the most.

Bravo!

So, can we consider the "shameless" wrathy among the many under-appreciated composers of our time?

[Rick Averill]

One fellow who I got to know, not a composer but a giant as an orchestrator, was Irv Kostal. Orchestrated Sound of Music, Mary Poppins and many others, all beautifully. At his memorial service after he passed on his fellow arrangers talked about how he could have an overture fully arranged and orchestrated before lunch. They used to have competitions for who could do the most fully orchestrated number of bars the fastest.

An interesting book that talks about Kostal and his contemporaries is "The Sound of Broadway Music: A Book of Orchestrators & Orchestrations" by Steven Suskin. There is a wealth of information about the various orchestrators (from 1943 to 1964) including a comprehensive list of who actually orchestrated each song in the shows discussed. It's surprising to know that the person with the credit as orchestrator often didn't do all the charts for the show. They often had ghost orchestrators (the big names regularly ghosted for each other) and sometimes a show with one orchestrator of record would have four or five men working on it.

The research on the book is comprehensive and impressive. There are two major weaknesses to the book. One is that when Suskin tries to analyze arrangements his lack of knowledge really shows through (he is a critic, not a musician.) The other is the obvious vendetta he has against Phil Lang. He spends an inordinate amount of time complaining about this wonderfully kind and skilled man. It soon becomes obvious that it is an irrational obsession with him.

Still I would recommend the book for the antidotal information about the orchestrators and the wealth of objective data regarding who wrote what.

[wrathy]

Because that's what people pay for. Those who still support opera houses in terms of "the big bucks" could care less about new operas and can more easily fill seats with Puccini, Verdi, and Mozart.

Quite right. I guess I was referring to the institution itself. At what point does it/should it grow the audience or introduce its audience to new works?

Kind of hard to do--- there are a number of things on youtube, but few are my faves for as nice as they are. There's The Tempest, and a host of songs--- many of which were recorded and performed regularly by Leontyne Price in recital.

Hoiby set part of Martin Luther King's speech, I Have A Dream brilliantly, which I've conducted it several times-- it's a "tour de force" for baritone and orchestra. Another benchmark work is his first opera, The Scarf with its dark subject matter. Great story-- don't want to give any spoilers, but a woman is lonely as her husband hunts for food for days and days at a time. She begins to spin yarn and makes a scarf to pass the long hours, but her yearnings "casts a spell" that brings a stranger to her door-- and they, well-- you know.... "get busy" much to the chagrin of her husband when he returns. Of course, she gives the stranger the scarf she made in hopes that he'll return, but he never does.

Are there any recording of the above works you can direct me to, or should I just start poking around the vaunted "internets" (not one of my favorite activities unless I know specifically what I am after...).

Nice piece! I like the juxtaposition of flavors-- 20c classical with certain essences of jazz, but decidedly American. There is also a certain nod to early Berg as well, unless I'm missing the point entirely. But I really enjoy the lyricism-- particularly with how you use the descending major third melodically. There a moments when that occurs which I cannot consider "accidental", so to speak. I hear that interval used that way more as a unifying element rather than something taking place by mere happenstance.

There's a flavor of "sadness" about this work, for lack of a better description-- but it's always interesting, which is what I like the most.

Bravo!

So, can we consider the "shameless" wrathy among the many under-appreciated composers of our time?

Thanks. Insightful analysis. I was going to also include the score...its all (obviously) fake except or the soprano. I have had it read once but looking for a performance of the whole thing (three mvts.)
Its quite a chromatic piece, to be sure. More so than most of what I write. I am mostly a jazz writer, but do other things as well (like commercial work to try and keep my 5 year old in lego...)

I would not consider myself under appreciated in the world of concert music. Jazz might be another story!!!

Best.