Worth buying algorithmic reverb now? (ProVerb)

Larry_81 · Post by **Larry_81** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:20 am

I'm wondering if it is wise to spend money at this point buying
an algorithmic reverb like IK's CSR, when DP6 is almost here and I will potentially be able to mimic it in ProVerb...

Or will I?

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:46 am

Hard to tell in a guess.

I got into Altiverb right around the time Logic came bundled with its Space Designer. I tried to use it once in Logic and went back to AV. I think I also went back to DP. Altiverb spoiled me a bit.

Space Designer appears to be quite similar to ProVerb-- but I don't want to prejudge PV without trying it out first. I am looking foward to it, tho.

I will say this-- CSR is very nice and has a very different vibe from convolution reverbs in general.

Since DP6 didn't make it by Q1-08 as originally estimated, there's no telling when it will get here. If you can wait, I'd say take your time-- try out ProVerb, then decide if it meets your needs.

If you have an important project and need something now, I'd say get CSR right away and feel the joy sooner than later.

and I will potentially be able to mimic it in ProVerb...

Or will I?

Another good question. To "mimic" it? I can't imagine getting that close without having or creating a comparable impulse response.

I really don't mind dialing in numbers or turning knobs, but I've yet to desire to delve into making IRs from scratch. If you don't mind the depth of programming on the IR level, then getting close to CSR might not be so bad. There may already be a similar analog emu IR included with CSR.

The other thing is that there are all sorts of free IRs floating around the net (of varying quality). It remains to be seen what ProVerb will allow for import-- but all things being equal there's great potential for having almost any sort of reverb in ProVerb.

andrewwilde · Post by **andrewwilde** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:03 am

You can always have a play around with 'LAConvolver' (which is FREE

(donations invited)) whilst we're waiting for DP6:

http://audio.lernvall.com

It's pretty bare bones, but to my (currently) demo-level ears it doesn't sound a million miles away from the Altiverb demo I've played around with, and it actually sounds cleaner to me than the convolutions now built in to Battery and Kontakt (which in any case only operate from within the VI, not practical for mixing anything but the simplest material as far as I'm concerned). Wouldn't care to comment for professional use, mind you. Beauty for me is LAConvolver gives me separate plug access to all my included Battery/Kontakt IRs

.

I guess the major parameter you don't have control of (that you would with a full spec package) is tail length - but if you're prepared to hunt around for IRs that basically suit your needs (there are loads of freebies out there), then of course just about everything else can be handled by sticking it on a bus, and plugging in predelay/early refections/eq/dynamics pre or post to your heart's content. It conforms to the standard AU preset saving protocols, so flipping through preconfigured alternative IRs is a doddle, and thus far for me on G5/10.4/DP5.01 it's been extremely polite, no hassles at all. Don't have Intel, so couldn't comment there.

I'd say it's worth a look for anyone who's been lusting over Altiverb - freebie vs $500 + tax ? Got to be worth 30' of anyone's time.

(BTW, MOTU's UK distributors, Musictrack, told me the other day they were guesstimating end April for DP6, though they said they usually don't get hard info about releases any sooner than the rest of us)

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:53 am

andrewwilde wrote: (BTW, MOTU's UK distributors, Musictrack, told me the other day they were guesstimating end April for DP6, though they said they usually don't get hard info about releases any sooner than the rest of us)

That would be in keeping with other new releases of DP which have often arrived in May (even if "released" in April). Makes a lot of sense.

mikebeckmotu · Post by **mikebeckmotu** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:11 pm

Something to consider is that IK's CSR reverb sounds great while using very little CPU. Might be a good companion for a convolution reverb.
With the insane sales going on at IK lately, CSR could be had for pretty cheap.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:22 am

What about CSR vs. Breverb?

timriley · Post by **timriley** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:23 am

+1 for the LA Convolver..... If you to want have more control over the reverbs tail length you can always bounce it down to audio and use volume automation!

*EDIT* obviously not for every situation!

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:25 am

Frodo wrote:
andrewwilde wrote: (BTW, MOTU's UK distributors, Musictrack, told me the other day they were guesstimating end April for DP6, though they said they usually don't get hard info about releases any sooner than the rest of us)
That would be in keeping with other new releases of DP which have often arrived in May (even if "released" in April). Makes a lot of sense.

Is there a pre-pay happening for the upgrade to 6?

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:35 am

Tim wrote: Is there a pre-pay happening for the upgrade to 6?

Not yet-- at least on my list of eligible upgrades there's no DP6 showing.

zed · Post by **zed** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:46 am

mikebeckmotu wrote:Something to consider is that IK's CSR reverb sounds great while using very little CPU. Might be a good companion for a convolution reverb.
With the insane sales going on at IK lately, CSR could be had for pretty cheap.

Yep. With this group buy you can get CSR along with a lot of other groovy stuff for $199: http://www.esoundz.com/details.php?ProductID=1975
I think I'm gonna get CSR too... although I just got sucked into the whole EchoBoy thing... so I dunno.

Frodo wrote:...I've yet to desire to delve into making IRs from scratch.

My aunt has a piano in the family room, and it sounds SO good in there (as do any singing voices), that I have often wished that my recording studio was set up in her house. Once I get ProVerb, I definitely plan to take some impulse responses from that room to see if I can replicate the sound of it at home.

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:49 am

CSR is wonderful. Breverb is VERY VERY nice....

Logics Space designer is muddy sounding to me. Not crisp like altiverb

It is worth it to invest in other verbs. I dont think I have enoough of them yet.

If someone would write the Ensoniq DP/4 into a verb that would be awesome. The change from PPC to Intel cost me a good 4-5 verbs that I leaned on.

David Polich · Post by **David Polich** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:27 am

Wow, this thread reminded me to hold off on a new reverb until DP6. Wizooverb, which I have, has been discontinued and I'm in the market for another high-end reverb soon. I'm counting on DP6 to provide that. I don't expect DP6's reverb to be quite as good as Altiverb, but anywhere close to it is good enough for me.

Recently I was working on a Celine Dion style power ballad and was trying with little success to get that spacious "airy" reverb for the female vocal, until I switched to Waves Rennaisance Reverb for the vocal and chose a plate.
Going back to those sugary overblown pop ballads, I'm now hearing that it is usually an algorithmic reverb on the vocals, or at least it sounds like it (and my guess would be a Lexicon or Eventide in most cases).

Algorithmic reverbs definitely have their place. I think you need both types - "convo" and "algo".

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:56 pm

giles117 wrote:CSR is wonderful. Breverb is VERY VERY nice....

What about wonderful vs. VERY VERY nice?

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:58 pm

Tim wrote:
giles117 wrote:CSR is wonderful. Breverb is VERY VERY nice....

What about wonderful vs. VERY VERY nice?

"Wonderful" sounds a little better!

billf · Post by **billf** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:48 pm

zed wrote:I just got sucked into the whole EchoBoy thing... so I dunno.

Me too. I have to stop reading threads started by Spikey Horse, as they are bad for the wallet.

As for reverb, I don't know, with DP6 just around the corner, I think I will hold off on any reverb purchases for a while.