am i the only dubious dude?

[Shooshie]

Most people, myself included, ask opinions about products before buying them. I can't afford a $1000 mistake. Even a $100 mistake makes me go "ouch." So every opinion helps. I need people to tell the truth, but the last thing I need is for someone to say "XYZ rocks and everything else sucks!" because I don't trust those opinions. Unless every person pretty much says the same thing, I usually write off such info as junk.

On the other hand, sometimes people will tell me negatives about a product, then I will buy it anyway, because I surmise that those negatives actually reinforce the way I work, or because the positives simply outweigh them. But it's essential to know those things. Demos are great, but you don't usually get enough enabled features and/or time to really know the product. It took me years to learn the full potential of Waves' C4 and Linear Phase MB Processors.

All this talk... heheh.. it's kind of funny. We'll get it all out of our system and continue as we always have. Let's face it, posting examples is a LOT of trouble. You've got to set up two or more examples, then you have to bounce them to disk, then upload them, then post them. At least, now, we have MP3 export. I guess we could set the destination as our iDisk, then bounce directly to the iDisk and post. Hmmm... that's a thought.

Shooshie

[BKK-OZ]

Originally posted by Fibes:
It's hard to beleive that folks can't hear the difference between a stock Motu EQ plug and the UAD Pultec.

errr... oh GREAT ONE with the lovely big perfect ears, when did I say I couldn't hear the difference? I'm forever telling my friends that mp3's aren't really the best listening experience available. (understatement!) But they like their music that way, so what's wrong with that?

Yeah, I can hear the differences awwwright. All I said was, at the end of the day, when your music* is listened to thru the average person's iPod, or in their '94 Ford or whatever, they don't know, don't care, & can't tell that you used a Rosetta 58974000 or if you di'ed the f'in bass with a homemade patch cord.

Sure, I can hear the difference. I can also spell anechoic, and so what? I love a good reference tone, I've read heaps of books on the physics of sound and recording practice. So what? I do fancy-pants recordings with all the modern gizmos. You know what people that come to see my work want me to do? Pick up my 25 year old Fender acustic and sing a song for them. No EQ, nothin'. They just dig the fact that when I do that, I give something of myself directly to them.

Yes, there is a big difference between a beheringer ANYTHING and some kit of reasonable quality, but in the end, the quality is in the music, the spirit, and all the rest of the stuff that drives 'amateurs' like me to try to create art that resonates (pun intended) with an audience.

I've got some Jimmy Reed records you ought to listen to sometime. Talk about EQ! eh! But I love that stuff - even tho he was, in your eyes/ears an 'amateur'.

When we are talking about 'verbs, other plugs, etc. I concede there is a big difference between things like everb and Altiverb. So what? That's like saying there is a big difference between a Mr Microphone and my nice Rode mic. My contention is that there isn't much of a difference between plugs that are comparable i.e., gear sold @ similiar price-points. I'd love to do a blind taste test with you, Mr I've-got-connoisseur-ears-that-will-astound-you!. I'd wager I could fool you quite easily. You're probably one of those guys that reckons the red MM's taste better than the green ones.

Same thing with the "does Logic sound better/worse than XYZ?" threads that pop-up. In a perfect listening environment, with everything else being equal, I'm sure that most of us could actually spot differences btwn DAWs. Again, so what? I defy you or anyone else to be able to translate that into something meaningful when it comes down to a final mix being played in your kid sista's bedroom. That's where the sound difference becomes neglible. The difference will be:

neg·li·gi·ble
Not significant or important enough to be worth considering; trifling.

*you do make music, yes? and not just "...uppity..." judgemental comments, presuming to know what I do with my days?

<small>[ August 18, 2005, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: BKK-OZ ]</small>

[Shooshie]

Your probably one of those guys that reckons the red MM's taste better than the green ones.

Oh man, that's hilarious. They're stupid for thinking the red ones are best. It's those new blue ones that have all the taste in 'em. I'm with ya, buddy, I'm with ya. Great mines dig deep. Blue blows me away, man. Yeppers. Indeedio.

Dooshie

[Fibes]

It's amazing how with one post both of us completely misconstrued the other. If you knew me you'd realize that the vitriol you just spat back sounds like part of my ACTUAL persona, more ears less gear. ....and yes Jimmy Reed is the ••••, may he RIP. If it weren't for him folks like Gregg Allman never would have sat behind a B-3. Anywho...

I pulled that snippet out of your post (the snarkyness wasn't directed at you) because there are so many folks that don't realize that some eqs can do more damage than good. Top end information is quite interactive (as i'm sure you know). I spent a good deal of last night dialing in eq on a mix of a Vassar Clements' (RIP) and Tony Rice's allstar jam and realized that although some eqs sounded fine in solo, what they did to the landscape (bleed and all) was the defining factor. In the end the MW EQ actualy worked fine for cuts in the mids and lows (Tony likes to shove the mic almost into the hole of his D28) but when it came to the top the only thing that worked was an actual API 550.

So if you want to continue on some sort of flame war fine, but yesterday was a rough day mixing a project of a dear person who died two days ago. The world lost a true genius and a fine gentleman and I'm sickened by it.

BTW I'm also not a mathematician but as in everything, a basic understanding of why or why not you are changing the aural landscape when you move a knob and the sense/taste to move it to the right spot is sorely lacking out there. The socialisation of audio is a good thing but the proliferation of blundering idiots in the audio field gets to me on days like yesterday.

I think M&Ms are filled with cheap ass chocolate so I'd avoid them in favor of the ones filled with peanuts. My 2 year old daughter disagrees, M&Ms are the world to her, color or no color.

[BKK-OZ]

No, I don't wanna flame war nobody & sorry to hear about your/our loss.

I guess it was pretty hard to not take your jibe personally, when you used a quote from me as a basis for your post -you could see how that might happen, I suppose?

Anywaze, far too much beautiful music to make to spend time being mad @ somebody who I would probably much rather have 10 beers with than argue with.

May all your EQ'ing be of only the highest calibre, using the gear that has the softest knobs.

Blessings upon you & your M & M-eating daughter.

<small>[ August 19, 2005, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: BKK-OZ ]</small>

[Fibes]

Originally posted by BKK-OZ:
I guess it was pretty hard to not take your jibe personally, when you used a quote from me as a basis for your post -you could see how that might happen, I suppose?

Anywaze, far too much beautiful music to make to spend time being mad @ somebody who I would probably much rather have 10 beers with than argue with.

May all your EQ'ing be of only the highest calibre, using the gear that has the softest knobs.

Blessings upon you & your M & M-eating daughter.

Cool, If the beers are Newcastle I'll take ten, if they are PBR I'll need 15.

I'm tracking her first song tomorrow, it's gonna be interesting.

I like Hydratone but the GUI is so awful I wish they offered a version without the graph.

[Jim]

Interesting yapping here, dudes... dudexes, whatever.

Glad to see people trying to get along in spite of disagreements and misunderstandings.

Still, I haven't noticed that anybody posted some AB comparison files. I have to believe it's possible that some comparisons could be made that wouldn't mix apples with oranges.

Like for example... one thing I would love to hear, if anybody knows of a link... a comparison between any boutique preamp and say a Mackie pre-amp or a MOTU built-in preamp.

<small>[ August 20, 2005, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Jim ]</small>

[Fibes]

Originally posted by Jim:
Like for example... one thing I would love to hear, if anybody knows of a link... a comparison between any boutique preamp and say a Mackie pre-amp or a MOTU built-in preamp.

Kinda-

REP Onyx comparison

[Jim]

I followed the link and downloaded the four samples. I put them in DP and lined them up to compare them.

Overall, I couldn't perceive a definitive degree of difference between the various pre-amps that would weigh in the favor of an expensive Neve over a built-in Mackie. They all sounded fairly similar.

I suspect a trick, though. When I inverted 1 against 2, the result totally cancelled.

[Fibes]

Unless the samples were swapped this is the way the cookie crumbles: (It's an old link)

1 EMI
2 Calrec
3 Mackie
4 Vintech

I was actaully surprised that the Mackie came so close. The problem is that not all pres react as similar in other circumstances.