am i the only dubious dude?

[waddo]

actually im not really a dude, but I am certainly dubious.

almost every day there is a post saying how great this fx plug is and how dandy this other one is etc etc etc.

These claims are made by chaps (and the occasional chapess) who have just handed over cash for the plug-in the so keenly praise. Mmmm. Forgive me if im not convinced. For example how can one EQ be so much better than another, when all it does is boost or reduce frequencies???

So, words and explanations will never convince me. But I would love to hear some snippets using the DP version, for example, and the fancy plug-in version you paid money for.

There's lots of yapping on this board, but not much music to support the statements.

If this was academia we would all get an F.

So, yeah dudes (and the occasional dudess) lets her some comparison snippets.

PS

I'm not holding my breath.

[FM]

what you're asking for makes total sense.
all i can really offer is that you check out some of the stuff on my website but i do not have comparison snippets as you suggest.

if this helps you at all the last three songs i posted were all done using URS plugs and an L2 waves limiter after being summed OTB.

everything else was done using waves plugs only and also summed OTB on an API 8200a.

i hear the difference but i'm not sure that the mp3's will actually show the differences you would hear in an uncompressed AIFF file.

sorry i can't be of more help, i understand what you're saying because i also had that question when i first got DP.

FM

FM shops and compares.

[David Polich]

Waddo, your tone is pretty condescending.

Many of us download demos and if we like what we hear and see, then we buy it. You don't have to take anyone's word for it. Download the demos of products you're interested in and if you like them, buy them, if you don't like them then don't buy them.

EQ's are not all the same, they're not just simple cut and boost set-ups. If that was the case then it wouldn't matter if you tracked through a NEve console or a Mackie 1202 or some Peavey stage mixer. But it does matter. And software is the same - how close it comes to either emulating the EQ it's modeling, or whether it sounds great on its own, is up to who wrote the software for it and how keen their ears, judgement, and code-writing smarts are.

Personally I think you posted just to piss some people off, perhaps you're still bitter after you couldn't get enough people to agree with your anti-Spectrasonics diatribe.

Maybe someone will post some comparisons for you but it won't be me.

<small>[ August 17, 2005, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Dave Polich ]</small>

[waddo]

hey, did you forget your sense of humour at the office?

or perhaps you just dont know how to read. spectrawhat?

have a drink and relax.

cheers

[dtobocman]

I don't know how they do it and I don't care, but these URS plugs really do sound like Neve and API modules.

Be dubious. It looks good on you, Waddo.

[jon]

I was always dubious of all these plug effects myself until I took the plunge and purchased a UAD-1. It changed the way I use my workstation 150 degrees! I have never sampled Waves or URS so I cannot comment I just read about what users like you have to say regarding there pros and cons in different scenarios. If you have the budget and you desire a wider pallet for your art then by all means experiment.

For a long time I felt the same way about microphones until I picked up a pair of Earthworks and a Blue Bottle. There are many microphones to choose from but they each seem to have special qualities that fit well with certain types of music and it's good to have few to choose from in your locker.

[dmshep]

In the end, I don't think any plug-in will let someone who doesn't know what they're doing suddenly create stellar mixes, but in the hands of someone who's learned their craft, the right plug-ins, properly used, can take mixes to another level.

I wondered the same thing about EQ's myself, but having fooled around a bit now with HydraTone, and the UAD Pultec, I can say there is a definite difference when I boost a high-end frequency with one of them or with the Para-EQ.

Then there's also the 'colour' that these emulated EQ's (and the originals) impart when used. All EQ's are not the same anymore than all guitars are the same because they all make noise when you strum them.

<small>[ August 17, 2005, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Guru ]</small>

[waddo]

you did not catch my meaning. the academic reference was simply a way of saying that we need supporting evidence when we make a statement. in the context of this post that means A/B comparisons.

Please read the title of the post and the language I use. I am trying to make a point but my tongue is firmly in my cheek.

If any one else wishes to take offense, please just ignore this post instead.

cheers

[Shooshie]

Ok, guys, why don't we lighten up a bit, eh? I know waddo as a playful, inquisitive spirit, not a critical one. I read his post as a challenge, not a put-down. No need to take offense or be overly sensitive. Heck, I agree with him. We OUGHT to be hearing examples of what sounds better or worse, and if you really want to be helpful, post screenshots of spectral analysis in addition to a pretty high-quality mp3. It doesn't have to be more than 5 seconds of audio. Just enough to estabilsh a context and portray the difference.

The academic remark was used in an offhand way: "if we wanna be academic about it, we need to post some samples, doo-dah, doo-dah-day." It's NOT saying "this place does not meet my academic expectations, blah-duBlah, McBlah." It's just a challenge! Heck, we all share pretty much the same opinion of the academy. I won't even divulge my opinions of it unless asked.

I think waddo makes a good point. Why not post something that we can all relate to? If I tell you "Waves L2 is the one-and-only," then don't you think I ought to have something to back up that statement? Otherwise I'm asking you to trust me above all others: "it's better because *I said so* and anyone who doubts me is a chucklehead."

So lighten up! Give waddo a break. Laugh along; don't puff up!

Shooshie

[chrispick]

Yeah, Waddo's query is essentially the same one I'd posted months and months ago: What's all this EQ yap?

I too didn't quite get what made one "frequency adjuster doo-hickey" different from another, and was confused by all the site love foisted on these expensive-to-my-mind third party options.

I've since learned that, as others have stated, that all equalizers are not created equal. Some are "clean and critical," boosting frequencies with exactness and without adding color or muck to the sound. Others are "warm and musical" and blend the frequency changes more smoothly and "butterily."

That said, though, I've yet to take the leap and purchase any third party EQs. I've test-driven a few (e.g., Tritone, MasterQ), but still rely on DP's MWEQ to do the bulkload of the deed for me. It just seems to work well enough. I add color via other plugs (e.g., PSP VW and MixPack, Pre-amp, etc., which bring color by the buttload)

So, I've no EQ comparisons to post.

[qo]

Originally posted by Shooshie:
Heck, we all share pretty much the same opinion of the academy.

I'd like to thank the Academy, and my producer, and my mother, and that really hot chick down the street for helping me to become the dubious dude that I am. I could never have done it without every one of you!

[Jim]

I don't know how they do things over in Japan, but here in 'Merica, the feminine of dude is dudette...

... academically speaking.

<small>[ August 17, 2005, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Jim ]</small>

[billf]

Originally posted by waddo:
If this was academia we would all get an F.

Even the music magazines do this. Reviews are always subjective, but then even an A/B comparisons are subjective IMHO. Example, some folks love lo-fi sounds, some don't. Some folks love the mp3, others dread it.

But I think I understand what you're saying. Talking about music is so two dimensional; so let's get 3D and actually hear what folks like and dislike. Right?

BTW, there are differences in plugins. A lot depends on the algorithims used to build and design the plugin. But whether you like plugin A versus plugin B is a completely personal choice.

[Shooshie]

Originally posted by Jim:
I don't know how they do things over in Japan, but here in 'Merica, the feminine of dude is dudette...

... academically speaking.

Is that what Waddo meant by "I'm not really a dude?"

Well, around here one just gets to thinking of everyone as "one of the guys."

[BKK-OZ]

well, as a dooder who's been into reviewing lately, I have some, but not much, sympathy for Waddude's argument. I have actually thought of posting audio snippets with the reviews I have been putting up over on OSX Recording, but then I thought, "...no..." for several reasons: </font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">even the simplest of the gizmos have about 12 billion possible permutations, which would I choose to show off in a snippet?
  </font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">what 'source' could I select that would illustrate the point I was trying to make? For an a/b to make any sense at all, I would have to use either just one reference tone, or just a couple, and that would be even more booooooooring than reading silly things on I-net forums!
  </font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">just about everything I review (no wait, EVERYTHING I review) has a demo version available, why should I waste my time trying to show off a feature, when I can be more effective by a) trying to communicate what the plug can do and b) not patronising my audience with little audio examples, when I know everyone can test it for themselves</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A good example of what I think are bad examples are what you can find @ Audio Ease for Altiverb. They have a bunch of mp3's, but what do they show you? Not much really, certainly less than what you would experience in a 10 minute test of their demo. (BTW, look out for an upcoming review of Altiverb 5!).
oh, because I don't think its my role to can developers (esp. the small devs that I like to focus on in my reviews), you will always have to suffer with my enthusiasm for products. If I get a crap product to reveiw, I give the negative feedback straight to the developer and I don't put up a review and I return the product. I take the same view (generally) in forums. If I think something is crap, I tend to keep that to myself, unless asked directly, or unless I see someone spinning a tale about something.

So sue me, I ain't no scientist or academician, I'm justa guy who is trying to make dangerous modern art in dangerous old world.