Venting

Pound · Post by **Pound** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:21 pm

I was just on message board of a underground rap artist and I was reading through some post and found people talking about downloading my music. They were saying they were getting it off one of the peer to peer sites. I told them I wish they would buy it. I'm glad they like my music, but I sure would like to get paid for it. After all, I spent alot of money and put in a lot of time creating it. It's not like I'm some big named artist that gets paid alot of money to do shows or something. I sure wish that all the major labels and the RIAA would do something about this. Suing people individually will not accomplish anything in my opinion. They need to go after hosting companies and internet service providers for allowing people to have site like that.

Just had to vent for a second.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:31 pm

I agree with you. What's weird is I've had people tell me "Hey, I really liked your song so I captured the stream and saved it and burned a CD for my friend!" like it's a compliment. I tell them thanks and then politely that I hope they'll actually buy the CD when it is released. Ugh!!

Pound · Post by **Pound** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:34 pm

Yeah I had that happen also James. A guy told me he really loved some new stuff I did a while back and that he downloading the stream off of myspace. I was like thanks alot asshole. I hope you buy the cd when it's released. lol I guess people are gonna do it no matter what, but there has to be a fix to this .

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:43 pm

In cases where money is important, remember that not alienating your audience is even MORE important. Maybe you should study what Radiohead did in releasing their notorious "free" album, and see if you can impress upon your audience's conscience in some non-confrontational way that you would like for them to support your music, not just admire it. (Radiohead's average per-unit receipt was $6, much more than I anticipated.)

But remember that admiring your music IS a compliment, and that they aren't "assholes" for not buying it. They're your audience! If it's that important to make them buy it, then set up a commercial site where it's impossible to download it without paying. Meanwhile, if you give them the option to take it, and they do, they aren't assholes! Treat your audience with care. You're lucky to have someone. Just make your needs clear from the outset.

Shooshie

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:49 pm

No, I hear you Shooshie. If I didn't treat my audience with care, I would be sitting down mailing out signed photos to any who ask and giving away a free download of Christmas music. I also am sitting here for the next couple of hours sending out Happy New Year comments to my MySpace fans and it takes hours. I always make sure to appreciate them and I understand that they mean it as a compliment. But when I designate a song for "streaming" only, it's rather clear to me that using some sort of utility to capture the stream is sort of circumventing something I put in place for a reason.

I think part of the issue is putting music up for streaming BEFORE there is a legal alternative available like iTunes or physical CD. That was my mistake and a certain amount of that will go on, especially if a "fan" is frustrated and impatient about getting a physical copy which they ARE willing to pay for.

chrispick · Post by **chrispick** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:02 pm

Here's a link to a link to an article that talks about some of this:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25644

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:09 pm

By the way, since we're talking about marketing, basically, do any of you guys know how to get your music on iTunes music store? I know someone who really needs to do that, and although I didn't spend a lot of time trying to find it, I wasn't able to find that information in the google searches that I did.

Shooshie

Pound · Post by **Pound** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:12 pm

You can do it yourself or through a company like cd baby. To do it yourself you need to setup an account with itunes. Here is the link http://www.apple.com/itunes/musicmarketing/

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:13 pm

Shooshie wrote:... remember that not alienating your audience is even MORE important...

Wow-- this is such a tough thing to reconcile. One's fans can be naive-- and cheap-- and inconsiderate-- and insensitive while being admirers at the same time.

Part of it is public mindset that has to be changed. I don't like the approach the RIAA has taken-- It's not that I don't appreciate their intent, but I've questioned the effectiveness of their approach from early on. First they doubled the price of CDs to cover the losses and then wondered why people didn't buy them. Then iTunes shows up while the RIAA is suing teens. But for as successful as iTunes has been, it falls short as well. There's also a gazillion of other download sites both public and private which are just out of control.

Even with the Radiohead example, there's no telling how many got the tracks for a sneeze then redistributed it to their friends.

But, the Radiohead example may be a hint that the old system is irreparable-- that the horse may be too far out of the barn to do much about it.

It's such a mess that the options are:

1. Do nothing-- not a solution

2. Wipe the slate clean and make the music unavailable for a period of time until a new solution can be put into place. This will only encourage bootleggers in the interim with a scary loophole in the laws that allow for redistribution if the product is no longer publically for sale.

In addition to naive teens and non-musicians, there are musicians and audiophiles out there who should know better, but who still feel entitled to have their own music paid for while having someone else's music for free.

I have no idea what the best solution is. It's so unfortunate-- and Pound, I'm really sorry you and so many others have fallen victim to this, including myself. What does one do when the legit sale of one CD can result in dozens of people having a copy of it?

Is there any way possible to even out this sort of inequity where the public mindset is nearly impossible to monitor or regulate?

And yes-- it's a slippery slope when things go too far in the way of Big Brother. Even legit fans can feel a sense of alienation by default. But that leads right back to the lawsuit approach.

It's a sad situation. It's so sad that I've not put out a CD in last 5 years and just focused on live concerts instead with no product to sell. That's no real solution, either.

Pound · Post by **Pound** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:23 pm

I'm not sure what the solution is. I don't wanna see a kid or anyone sued for some crazy amount of money, but I don't wanna see them take the music for free either. I think it will work itself out eventually. It just might take a while.

I will say the labels are the ones that screwed all of this up in the first place. they are guilty of price fixing and all sorts of stuff. Not to mention they would put 1 or 2 good songs on a cd and expect people to want to buy a 14.00 dollar cd for only 2 good songs. They didn't embrace the mp3 technology from the beginning and let it get out of control. I could go on and write for hours about it, but I really don't feel like it. lol I'm in a lazy mood today.

I do think Rick Rubin had a good idea about creating a new media player for both car and home. You pay a subscription service for and you can listen to any song anytime you want to. Just type it in or scroll to it or whatever. The only thing is figuring out the royalty rates for something like that.

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:57 pm

I think the *easiest* way to get on iTunes is tunecore.com. The rap against CD Baby is that there is no way to limit digital distribution to iTunes alone, but you have to also have it go out on other downloading services.

http://www.tunecore.com

I'm assuming the easiest way is to go directly to Apple but from what I've heard and read (I purchased a small book online on how to do this) you have to jump through a lot of hoops to convince Apple you're a "legit" label.

Pound · Post by **Pound** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:12 pm

James Steele wrote:I think the *easiest* way to get on iTunes is tunecore.com. The rap against CD Baby is that there is no way to limit digital distribution to iTunes alone, but you have to also have it go out on other downloading services.

http://www.tunecore.com

I'm assuming the easiest way is to go directly to Apple but from what I've heard and read (I purchased a small book online on how to do this) you have to jump through a lot of hoops to convince Apple you're a "legit" label.

I should have mentioned that. I've heard it takes forever to do the itunes thing yourself. Tunecore seems cool. I've done cdbaby on a cd before and was satisfied. All the money came mostly from itunes though, so all the other sites were a waste I guess.

edit..

Looking at Tunecore...it seems kind of expensive. Cd Baby is a one time $35 fee and tunecore has yearly recurring fees. I don't know . I'd have to do the math on everything first.

npatton · Post by **npatton** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:23 pm

Even well-intentioned people are clueless about the impact this has. I just released a CD independently, and I'm starting the whole mySpace/internet networking game for the first time.

My buddy was looking at my site at his job when an old neighbor of mine walked in to say hi to him. He showed her my site and told her about the CD. She got excited and asked him to burn her a copy from his.

"No."

"Oh, well, uh, yeah, I'd pay for that, I guess."

And that's from someone I would call a friend.

Oh, well...
n

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:25 pm

James Steele wrote:I think the *easiest* way to get on iTunes is tunecore.com. The rap against CD Baby is that there is no way to limit digital distribution to iTunes alone, but you have to also have it go out on other downloading services.

http://www.tunecore.com

I'm assuming the easiest way is to go directly to Apple but from what I've heard and read (I purchased a small book online on how to do this) you have to jump through a lot of hoops to convince Apple you're a "legit" label.

James, if you could point me to that book, I'd appreciate it. Anything with the instructions on how to get the music out there on iTunes. Preferably without middlemen other than Apple itself. My friend can jump through hoops; no problem there. She just needs to know where to start.

Shooshie

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:46 pm

I just found Pound's link to Apple's iTunes Marketing pages. That may be enough. I've already forwarded that link to the person I mentioned.

Shooshie