Best compact MIDI keyboard controller?

INSUB · Post by **INSUB** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:20 am

I bought a Virus TI Desktop a few months ago. I wish I had gotten the Polar version, because now I need some keys. I'm playing it from my Nord Lead 3 now, but I want to have keys dedicated to the Virus. So, I'm thinking of getting a 25 key controller.

Right now I'm looking at:

E-Mu XBoard 25 ---- $129.95
Seems lacking in features from the others, but has the smallest price tag. 1 slider and 16 knobs. Unweighted keys, the rest have semi-weighted.

Alesis Photon X25 ---- $169.99
A bit better looking aesthetically and quality than E-Mu. More features, but mixed reviews. Though, most of the issues people seem to have relate to the ASIO driver, which I will not use. No sliders, but 10 knobs have 3 layers. Has the AXYZ controller and knobs are endless. This really seems like the best balance of features, quality, & cost.

Novation ReMote SL Compact ---- $299.00
Comparative quality to Alesis. No sliders, but has 8 trigger pads and 8 knobs. Larger display screen. Comes with some softsynths. Big price jump.

Novation ReMote SL ---- $348.88 (Re-Boxed w/full warranty) $399.00 (brand-new)
Cons: Massive Price (double the Alesis), no Mod wheel or PB wheel (Pitch/Mod lever instead).
Pros: Massive dual display, XY touch-pad controller, 8 sliders, 8 trigger pads, 17 knobs. Comes with some softsynths.

Do any of you use these controllers?

I really only need the MIDI, not an audio or USB interface, but it seems like they all come with that stuff nowadays. Also, its gotta have at least the PB wheel, Mod wheel, and Aftertouch. I'm only interested in synth-action or semi-weighted keybeds. I already have a Yamaha Motif ES 8 with weighted keys, but I prefer synth or semi-weighted keys for triggering the Virus. I want a compact controller b/c of space. Plus, I'll mostly be playing leads and bass lines from the Virus, so I think 25 keys will be enough.

M-Audio's Oxygen and Axiom keyboards don't have aftertouch as far as I can tell from my research (at least the 25 key versions don't).

Any advice?

Thanks.

INSUB · Post by **INSUB** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:24 am

P.S. I like the sequencer control functions, which I may use with Cubase for recording & mixing. Maybe one day I'll start using soft synths, but I don't right now.

daniel.sneed · Post by **daniel.sneed** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:09 pm

I play a Novation X-Station which has a very good "feel" to my fingers.
Semi-weighted, that is to say light touch but "musicaly responsive" IMHO.

Take a time to do a real test, some keyboards can behave like non inspiring toys !

BradLyons · Post by **BradLyons** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:49 pm

If you're looking for the best feeling keyboard, then Novation is the way to go. They have a few options that range in price from affordable to definitely not the most affordable option, depending on features and capability. BUT if you're using a Virus product, then I'd consider getting the Novation SL to give you the control capability that the Virus wants.

By the way, it's my opinion that semi-weighted really isn't--it's just a fancy way of saying it's another non-weighted action

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:21 pm

Having just tried them all at Guitar Centre once again this afternoon, I can safely say that the Novations are by far the best. Nothing else comes close. Some of the others have nice keybed action (Edirol, E-Mu, even some of the Korg stuff). But the Novation series (all five of them from the past few years) is the most precise in its handling of release velocity and aftertouch, smooth response across the dynamic range, and comprehensive support for templating setups for lots of soft synths and DAW's.

Having said that, I feel the knobs are too close together on many of their controllers (the SL series as well as the X-Station), have never been fond of joy sticks vs. XY-pads and traditional mod and pitch wheels (a personal preference), find the drum pads on the more recent models too small to be very useful, and actually prefer the template overlays of the somewhat older ReMote series to the more adaptable LED rows of more recent controllers. I'm sure the LED's were a more practical (if more expensive) choice for future-proofing the controllers though.

It is a shame that Novation does not yet make an 88-key weighted controller, as it likely would be best in class if they ever got around to it. But it is nice that they sell controllers in several sizes, including the very compact 25-key controllers (two octaves). NovaMusik in Milwaukee has quite a few reboxed and unboxed Novation controllers on special sale at the moment (http://www.novamusik.com). They're also good folks, like the people at Sweetwater and audiomidi.com.

Speaking of "compact", there is a brand-new controller from Novation called the "SL Compact". It's slightly smaller than the regular SL series, with fewer knobs but still sufficient control for most purposes.

If I remember correctly, the keybed action used by Novation for their MIDI controllers is the same one that Dave Smith uses for the Evolver line (if not also the new Prophet '08).

INSUB · Post by **INSUB** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:06 pm

Thanks everyone for your input!

It sounds like Novation is definitely the way to go. It's a bit more than what I wanted to spend, but that's kinda like my work ethic,"Do it right...the FIRST time."

I went today to the only Music store near me that might have some of these controllers. They didn't have any of them. The had a couple by Korg, but the price was too high ($750 for one!) and I didn't care much for their lack of features or keybed feel.

It seems like a pretty good deal over at Nova on the re-boxed items. That's where I bought my Virus TI. Plus, they give you some extra software too.

It seems like people don't care much for the Alesis Photon X25. That was my keyboard of choice before I got your advice.

As for the two Novation models... one is less expensive with traditional Mod & PB wheels, but the other is not much more and has a lot more controllers on it. Which on do you all like better, the ReMote SL Compact, or the ReMote SL?

Thanks again for the prompt and descriptive responses.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:40 am

AFAIK the Compact SL isn't out yet but will be in a few days. I sort of like its layout and design a bit better than the larger model, but am torn between it and the original ReMote which had the overlay templates.

I can just barely fit a 25-key controller on my computer table, and I know it would help productivity for quick-and-dirty stuff and trying out soft synths, etc., but I'm personally hesitant even to spend $199 on the older ReMote 25 until I have tried the latest ReMote SL Compact 25. maybe it'll show up in stores next week. I can't really tell if the drum pads are as tiny as on the others, and it has just eight rotary encoders and no sliders, but still beats most competition except for CME, which continues to have too many MIDI bug reports for my comfort zone.

INSUB · Post by **INSUB** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:14 pm

CME doesn't offer a 25 or 37 key controller either. Their smallest versions are 49 keys.

You said that you looked at the E-Mu controller. What did you think about those, other than keybed feel?

Again, I like the fact that the Compact SL has traditional wheels for PB and Modulation. I think that the trigger pads look slightly bigger in the photos, but I have never seen either model in person.

The regular ReMote SL has so many more controllers though. I think I may be able to get over my want for a Mod Wheel if I can use the XY pad or the extra 9 rotary encoders.

Do you know if the knobs are endless?

It is a shame that Novation does not yet make an 88-key weighted controller, as it likely would be best in class if they ever got around to it.

I don't think it's likely that they'll make an 88 key controller. Look at their history, they've come from VA synths to controller makers. They would probably be buying the Hammer Action from a third party anyway if they made an 88 key controller. I think that Yamaha and probably Kurzweil have the best feeling hammer action keybeds. I played with a Korg M3 88 key yesterday and I thought the keys felt loose and cheap. I don't care for Korg's hammer action at all. I may be partial since I have a Motif ES at home, but there was a Motif XS just a couple feet away for comparison. Even my girlfriend agreed that the M3 felt cheaper/looser, and she doesn't even play! It was that obvious.

I have posted this topic in a couple of other forums, but this is the only place that has given good feedback, so Thank You.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:01 pm

I forgot to check whether the Compact SL's knobs are endless (since they dropped one set of eight, it's hard to guess which set they dropped). They have all the info posted at their site though.

The E-Mu isn't a good buy for me as the "free" software that comes with it is Windows-only. Sure wish they'd port their stuff to the Mac! I did like the feel quite a bit, but the Novation pips it out on raw MIDI specs and quality AT.

One that I forgot to mention might not officially be out yet, and that's the new controllers from Akai, which looks heavily influenced by Novation's. Numark seems to have combined Akai and Alesis into one business entity with differences in branding based on different markets or specialties, so it's possible that they share a lot in common with the Photons. Hopefully not. At the very least, the drum pad triggers might be the most solid (MPC style).

INSUB · Post by **INSUB** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:58 pm

I didn't know that there was going to be a controller by Akai. I'm going to look into it. It may be after Christmas before I make a final decision. I also didn't know that Numark owned Alesis and Akai. I wonder if they made the Photon for keyboardists and are going to make the Akai controller more geared towards DJs.

So you think that the E-Mu does not have good aftertouch?
That is an important feature for use with the Virus TI.

My brother has an Alesis Ion. I like the feel of the knobs and wheels on it. They seem very solid and well made. The keys are not weighted at all, but they do not feel cheap. They are much like the keys on my Nord Lead 3. Do you know if the hardware on the Photon are the same as the Ion? I think someone said they were.

INSUB · Post by **INSUB** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:07 pm

The Akai MPK49 looks awesome, but it only comes in a 49 key version, and I don't have room for that size keyboard.
$399.00 @ Nova Musik.

Here is some info on it from their site:

Key Features

* 49-key, semi-weighted keyboard with aftertouch and full-sized keys
* 8 full-sized, 360 degree rotation pots, each with 3 banks for 24 pots total
* 12 genuine MPC pads with velocity and pressure sensitivity
* 8 full-sized sliders with 3 controller banks for each for 24 sliders total
* MPC note repeat and all-new arpeggiator
* 8 assignable backlit switches with 3 controller banks each for 24 switches total
* MMC/MIDI Start Stop transport buttons
* Large, easy-to-read custom LCD display

Specifications

* Number of Keys: 49 + 12 x 4 banks of drum pads
* Type of action: Semi-weighted
* Aftertouch (Channel)
* Computer Interface: USB/MIDI
* Displays: Custom LCD
* Footswitchable Patch Changes: yes
* Number of Independent MIDI Ins/Outs: 1
* Programmable Continuous Footpedals: 1
* Programmable Footswitches: 1
* Programmable controllers: MMC, MIDI START/STOP, MIDI CC
* System Real-Time Controls: MMC, MIDI START/STOP, MIDI CC

Includes:
# Ableton Live Lite Akai Edition - contains 28 custom Akai Impulse presets with samples
# USB Cable

Applications:
# Beat Creation
# MIDI sequencing
# Live Performance[/code]

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:20 pm

The Alesis Ion doesn't have aftertouch, if memory serves (certainly the Micron doesn't). Not sure about the Photon.

The Akai controller was announced earlier this year... at Winter NAMM in January 2007 if I recall (I think that's where I first saw it). I asked them at the time if they were rebranding some things as Akai, but they weren't allowed to answer that question. The Akai/Alesis booth was a single setup with the same people showing/explaining all the products from both brands.

In terms of the AT on the E-Mu controllers, I am going by Keyboard Magazine's controller roundup from earlier this year, which is very well-written and very thorough. It is definitely one of the better ones, but almost everyone seems to agree that Novation has the smoothest AT values.

Didn't the Photon come in a 25-key version? I figured maybe the Akai would as well, but there might be too much on it to fit in a 25-key version.

INSUB · Post by **INSUB** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:23 pm

mhschmieder wrote: Didn't the Photon come in a 25-key version? I figured maybe the Akai would as well, but there might be too much on it to fit in a 25-key version.

As far as I can tell, 25 keys is all you can get in the Photon. Definitely, the Akai's pads and controls require a larger model.

Looking again at 8th Street.com, I see that the CME UF5 is only $139.99 and has a lot of control options.
What do you mean about "too many MIDI bugs"?
Does that have to do with the USB, or all its MIDI?

I'm seriously looking at the Photon now, particularly b/c of the price, then I noticed the price of the CME and I thought, "I could probably make room for 49 keys for that price". But, I don't want to save $30 just to get a lot of headaches.

daniel.sneed · Post by **daniel.sneed** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:44 pm

Partially off-topic in your case, Insub, but some around here would be pleased to know that Studiologic/Fatar builds hammer action master keybords in 76 and 61 notes. They include MIDI-usb.

Called VMK-176 plus, and VMK-161 plus.

61 may take his way to my studio soon.

INSUB · Post by **INSUB** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:49 pm

Yeah, that's a cool bit of info that I'm sure some will like to know. I guess I kind of stretched the topic myself when I commented on a 49 key controller.

I personally am not interested in a hammer action controller because my Yamaha Motif ES8 has 88 weighted action keys.

Thanks for the info Daniel.
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I emailed Alesis to see if the Photon could be used as a USB MIDI interface without using the audio capability. I can't use their ASIO driver because I need to use my 828's. I'll let you all know what they say.