Ignorance Killed the Music Industry

[bradswan]

Vent away my friend. I wasn't referring to your post, just the
sensitivity of the subject.
As a matter of fact make my tea a "Venti".

[arth]

As more and more musicians are forced to sell T-shirts, who's going to play the music? Eventually this will all come back to bite the consumer on the ass. If the music business fails, there won't be any music to pirate. I realize that this is an over simplification of the problem but it's gotta have some impact over time. Don't ya think?

Remember that the music that already exists doesn't disappear if the music industry fails. If anything, it will become more available. There's so much available that there doesn't have to be lots of living artists -- a person can listen to good music every day for his whole life and never ever hearing the same thing twice.

This, of course, isn't desirable, but I think the volume of both music artists and writers is too high, and needs to be culled down to reflect the market saturation and the fact that music (or books) don't expire. Every month the consumer has more to choose from, no matter how many artists are currently well fed.
Artists are needed for live performances, and for creating something new, but when they're too numerous, and what they do is mostly the same old, same old, they're part of the problem, not the solution.

[Mr. Quimper]

If the music business fails, there won't be any music to pirate.

Except that there's already more music in print and in illegal circulation than any one person could ever listen to in a lifetime.

Sorry, I'm against pirating music, but that's just a silly comment. If there wasn't another note of music performed or written or recorded from now to eternity, I still wouldn't be able to explore everything that's out there in my lifetime.

Hell, as it is, 90% of what I explore and buy is stuff that's at least 30-40 years old. I think I may buy 2 or 3 "new" releases every year...the rest is "archival back-catalogue" stuff.

And like I said initially, there's more than enough digital copies going around the 'net that no one would need to rip anything new, even if every CD on the face of the earth vanished, there'd still be countless releases floating around.

And let's not forget all the "indy" bands releasing their music for free on myspace or soundclick or wherever that are completely outside of the music "industry" - people are perfectly able to listen to that without having to pay money to the "industry".

If the music business fails, people will certainly have music to listen to whether you like it or not.


Again, I'm against pirating, but this is just reality.

Although, for what it's worth, I'm also against sleazy major labels ripping off their artists and investing millions in selling garbage when the greatest musicians of our time are starving because of underexposure and a musical culture of worshiping crap...but that's another discussion I guess.

Edit: Looks like arth already beat me to this response. Oh well, extra reinforcement.

[Phil O]

Hmm. I see your points. It's a shame that things are going this way. Time to get my T-shirt vending license.

Phil

[chrispick]

Related: I think "the majors" still have something to worthwhile contribute to the music business, but packaging and distribution are no longer it. Musicians can move product on their own, and reap better dollar ratios doing so.

Musicians cannot, however, promote themselves on a large scale (unless they're already rich or adept at procuring venture capital for backing -- good luck!). Most home-grown marketing campaigns are ostensibly messages-in-bottles in a sea clogged with message-bottles. Music corporations can address this need, much like, say, an agency like CAA serves actors. That it, they could evolve their artist-relations business and morph into promotion entities. Corporate impresario work, if you will.

[FMiguelez]

That's a flawed analogy IMO, Zaster.
It's easy to argue for shelter for the poor.
Entertainment, on the other hand, is not a matter of life and death.

Furthermore, if one feels strongly enough about bringing music to those who can't afford it, one can always provide free concerts and/or recordings of one's own work.

Ridiculously accurate and to-the-point answer, my dear hombre chango friend.

You took those words out of my mou... errr.... hands. But with more finesse...

Couldn't have written it better myself. Hurray to you!!!!!

[FMiguelez]

That's a flawed analogy IMO, Zaster.
It's easy to argue for shelter for the poor.
Entertainment, on the other hand, is not a matter of life and death.

Furthermore, if one feels strongly enough about bringing music to those who can't afford it, one can always provide free concerts and/or recordings of one's own work.

I wonder how many poor musicians need shelter becuase they were never paid for their talents and are either washed up, broken harted, or frankly homeless........

... and this closes the idea very nicely


I don't care if times change or not. I don't care if it's easy, if it's ok, if kids are stupid, or whatever. Stealing is stealing, and robbing someone (musicians, in this case) of one of their livelyhoods should be punishable harshly, and aggresively pursued. There will always be lame excuses for wrong-doing, but those do not make things less wrong.

For those idiots who insist that musicians are rich, and that their income is mostly obtained through live performances, what about the other half of musicians that do not perform live? The ones that live exclusively from performance royalties, CD sales, etc., such as myself and tons of composers???

We need EXEMPLARY punishments. Let a few thieves be the example, so new kids see that pirating is a serious crime, and they will think twice before doing it.

Pinches ladrones de mierda!!!!

[aizo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac

if you have about 20 free minutes. i really suggest you watch this video.
i mean the whole video.

well, i did write a whole huge comment about this. but i decided its not worth it. all i would get is mountains of attacks and no one open minded enough to accept what i have to say. so i have decided to 1984 myself and just leave you with the link.

[arth]

well, i did write a whole huge comment about this. but i decided its not worth it. all i would get is mountains of attacks and no one open minded enough to accept what i have to say. so i have decided to 1984 myself and just leave you with the link.

Well, as the adage goes, we borrow, they steal...

[chrispick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac

if you have about 20 free minutes. i really suggest you watch this video.
i mean the whole video.

I did.

What's the big deal? The Amen break point is nothing new. And yeah, copyright law and administration can't be stringent and dogmatic to an Nth degree when the material in question has already assumed a public domain-like status. Law requires practical application. So? Does it follow that everything be assigned PD status out of the gate, if all have similar potential?

I'm asking...

There's a whole tone to this clip that makes my roll my eyes (in a laughing way). Demonization of corporations and their greed (trite). Lionization of sub-pop cultures and their artistic cultural contribution (also trite). Repeated, careful use of the word "appropriated" (clever).

well, i did write a whole huge comment about this. but i decided its not worth it. all i would get is mountains of attacks and no one open minded enough to accept what i have to say...

Chicken! Bwak bwak bwak!

Please refer to avatar for retort.

Still waiting on the cease-and-desist letter on that sweet graphic, by the way.

[blue]

Still waiting on the cease-and-desist letter on that sweet graphic, by the way.

Why did I read that as cyst and deceased?

[monkey man]

Still waiting on the cease-and-desist letter on that sweet graphic, by the way.

Why did I read that as cyst and deceased?

LOL!

That's a flawed analogy IMO, Zaster.
It's easy to argue for shelter for the poor.
Entertainment, on the other hand, is not a matter of life and death.

Furthermore, if one feels strongly enough about bringing music to those who can't afford it, one can always provide free concerts and/or recordings of one's own work.

Ridiculously accurate and to-the-point answer, my dear hombre chango friend.

You took those words out of my mou... errr.... hands. But with more finesse...

Couldn't have written it better myself. Hurray to you!!!!!

Praise like this deserves a wholehearted thank you, Fernando.
Thank you!

Standards such as yours deserve a hearty pat on the back too.

Here's a sad turn of events. At a recent A&R meeting I was informed that some Record companies are now taking a portion of merchandising and that it is becoming part of the standard contract.
Of course that's in response to lack of units sold due to pirating, but a 3 platinum selling friend is being dropped by his label due to the fact the most recent CD sold only 600,000 units?!!

This was news a few days ago:

http://www.daylife.com/story/05avdVubrb2NK/news/all/1

http://valleywag.com/tech/music/madonna ... 309800.php

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/11436.cfm

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it yet.

[bongo_x]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac

if you have about 20 free minutes. i really suggest you watch this video.
i mean the whole video.

I love that video, I ripped the audio from it a couple years ago and put it in my itunes.

One of the problems is that nothing goes into Public Domain anymore unless the person purposely does it. I think it's nothing after 1923 in the U.S. but I could be wrong. Mostly because of the big eared mouse.

I have more respect for the guy giving away the DVD's than your neighbor downloading. He's doing it because he believes it's right, it's a political opinion and statement. I'm OK with that, even though I think he's wrong. Your neighbor is just stealing, knows it, and doesn't care.

It seemed like back in the day musicians made money working, playing live. Recordings came along and helped as a promotional material. Then recording sales picked up and live shows became the promo for selling records. Now we're going back. This is fine except as the music world changed there emerged people who made artistic recording that had nothing to do with live music performance. They're not going to make money playing live.

The truth is most lower and mid level (sales) musicians I know are doing better in the new world, putting out their own recording and selling T-shirts, than they were signed to a major label. The huge majority of people on major labels lost money during their time.

We'll see how this works out, but nowhere is it written that I have a god given right to make money as a musician. I might have to get a real job.

bb

[FMiguelez]

I have more respect for the guy giving away the DVD's than your neighbor downloading. He's doing it because he believes it's right, it's a political opinion and statement. I'm OK with that, even though I think he's wrong

But it doesn't matter if he's "wrong" or not. He's a CRIMINAL. It's not matter of right and wrong, but a matter of being a thug/criminal/thieve. It's against the law. PERIOD.
There has been people that have also made political opinions and statments, but have also been a shame to humanity. I'd mention a few, but James would kick my but

The truth is most lower and mid level (sales) musicians I know are doing better in the new world, putting out their own recording and selling T-shirts...

Isn't this a SHAME?? Musicians selling T-shirts to survive, because they can't make a living out of their true profession? PPLLEEEEAASSEE!!!

So is that reality now?? Selling T-SHIRTS to survive???? Thanks to thieves and pirates!!!!!!!!!

We'll see how this works out, but nowhere is it written that I have a god given right to make money as a musician. I might have to get a real job.

This is ok, and it can happen. AS LONG AS it's because not every musician is as good as the other, or because of lack of luck, or talent, or whatever, but NOT BECAUSE OF PIRACY...

Making it as a professional musician is hard enough. The thing that we need the LEAST is the help of these thugs that grab anything they can, just because it's available and easy.

------------------

I'm SICK and tired of listening to arguments like "Peer to peer sharing is here to stay. That's how things are now" Blah, blah, blah. The second we accept and embrace that idea, we'll be trully screwed. Just because it's happening all the time doesn 't mean it's here to stay. NO WAY. It MUST be stopped.

Since when does criminal behaviour dictate the norms and the "new" realities?

Do we have to just accept it and shrug because nothing can be done??

[Shooshie]

That reminds me of the Wilhelm Scream. It's a sound effect that was originally recorded in 1951 and has been used in possibly thousands of movies since then. It's in all the Star Wars movies, and the Lord of the Rings movies. Here's a Wikipedia article about it for further info. Like the Amen Break Beat, it's been recycled to the point of developing a following. My kids and I laugh every time we hear it, which is inconvenient since it usually occurs during a serious point in a movie (it's a scream, after all).

The guy who did it never received any extra compensation for it originally, much less for the thousands of times it was used later. Did he deserve anything for that? Is the honor through recognition enough? I think so. In any case, it's an example of intellectual property generating layers of lore in the culture. Even if ultimately the Wilhelm Scream is staggeringly trivial, it exemplifies the benefits of copyright freedoms.

Shooshie