session

[MIDI Life Crisis]

You're right, James. I should have come to you. I made it clear in the initial post and tried to be polite about it. Didn't work.

OTOH, while I agree totally it is your call, I do feel a member can still voice an opinion (in the way I did) and be within civil bounds. I re-read my post and don;t really see it as attacking anyone.

I also removed the picts in a later post as they are not necessary to the discussion any longer.

[chrispick]

Advertising is not necessarily the greatest evil in the world. A lot of people feed their families as a result of it.

And sometimes they feed themselves fried chicken from a bucket.

But not often enough.

*****

Okay, seriously --

Gearslutz is populated with vendors a' plenty (including the King of Fort Wayne himself, Chuck "wear a tie, it's picture day" Surack). I often find their input on products to be helpful. Grain of salt and all that.

In fact, a few times I witnessed vendors alleviating the grievances of kvetching customers via that board.

Could it be a mere virtual theater of the advertising absurd, some sort of staged we-can-fix-it scenario? There's usually a lot of f-words and quasi-slander thrown around, so it's at least lively melodrama. Still, I buy into it.

[HCMarkus]

Talking Points, June 25, 2007:

1) I like the fact that around these parts we don't use profanity... we follow the Colonel's lead and say: "Bucket."

2) I vote thumbs up for Brad... anybody who announces his wedding plans at UNation is alright with me!

3) I love MLC, too, 'cause he keeps us all honest.

But mostly, thanks for the wise words, and support, Sir James.

[monkey man]

1000 posts, HC; well done mate!

Looks like I've missed all the fun. Not.
My jaw quickly dropped as I read the thread.
Hasn't Brad copped enough flack?
Has he not yet proved his worth?

I dealt with him for the first time off the board a month ago.
He researched questions regarding a product, calculated prices and shipping costs, minced/wasted no words and did it all faster than anyone I've dealt with so far.
A consummate professional.
What's more, due to my lack of ID I subsequently learned that I'm not able to purchase goods from overseas, meaning his efforts were for nought in the end.
Brad took the news with a grace and understanding that's rare from his sector of the industry, in my experience.

When I first encountered Brad, I cynically jumped to the "worst" conclusions, voiced my objections to his posting here, and subsequently withdrew all criticisms and became a Brad fanboy when I realised what an upstanding young fella he is.
So I've come full circle. I've been there, so I understand the objections.
The error of my way was to project an imagined intent onto someone who had none other than to share.

You all know the pattern in life: You can chase the dollar and likely fail in the long term, or do the right thing and let the dollars find you by way of the karma/environment/reciprocal relationships you foster.
It's obvious Brad has chosen the latter path. It stands to reason therefore that any monetary reward he reaps, he's fully earned and deserves.
This is after all how the aforementioned, spiritually valid approach functions; you tend to get what you deserve, rather than what you'd necessarily like.

Throughout my reading of the thread, I was troubled by the fear that we'd scare him off and hoped to high Heaven that this wouldn't happen.
I value his input here, his knowledge of gear, his willingness to share information and projects, his sense of humour, his candor in revealing his most personal of fears and victories and his all-round friendliness and lack of venom.
He don't bite, folks. We, however, have.
One often doesn't know what one has 'till it's gone.
I know what we have, and personally don't require its removal in order to see it!

Sermon over. Please forgive the flock, Brad, we're only Unicorns, after all, and are as susceptible to paranoia and stampeding as the average human.
Well, maybe not quite, but the principle is sound.

In short, please don't go Brad; as far as this ape's concerned, you're part of the family.

[jlaudon]

And FWIW, Sweetwater seems to use most of it's expensive ad space in mags like Recording and Keyboard for DP and MOTU products - always at least 2 pages. So, even if Brad isn't a DP user, Sweetwater has probably contributed to more sales of MOTU stuff than any other retailer (still can't beat the service either).

Brad, you're a great guy, and I seem to think that you give advice based on what you really think is the best solution, not just on what your company sells - well they pretty much sell everything (except for... can I say the B word?

Thanks for all your input, Brad. And HCMarkus, you got it right by saying MLC keeps us all honest.

Anyway, FWIW...

[HCMarkus]

1000 posts, HC; well done mate!

I dropped the tale of Recording Regina on UN in to mark the milestone. Thanks Monkey!

[monkey man]

1000 posts, HC; well done mate!

I dropped the tale of Recording Regina on UN in to mark the milestone. Thanks Monkey!

No worries, HC.

Hey, if you've any more gems you'd like to share (of course you do!), please go for it.
Fantastic light entertainment, that was, and it wasn't Mills & Boone!

http://www.millsandboon.co.uk/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mills_&_Boon

[blue]

This isn't about impugning Brad's character. He may be the nicest guy in the world. Doesn't matter. As a salesmen in a crowd of potential customers, he has to be sensitive to how he comes across if he just wants to hang. That's all. I'm not sure he was deliberately trying to push anything here, but IMO the burden is on him to dispel any suspicion. Being a nice guy isn't enough, I guess.

I truly am sorry if Brad's feeling were hurt by this. I don't know him personally, like a lot of you. My objections were more general in nature, about the behavior of salesmen and not one man specifically.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

This isn't about impugning Brad's character. He may be the nicest guy in the world. Doesn't matter. As a salesmen in a crowd of potential customers, he has to be sensitive to how he comes across if he just wants to hang. That's all. I'm not sure he was deliberately trying to push anything here, but IMO the burden is on him to dispel any suspicion. Being a nice guy isn't enough, I guess.

I truly am sorry if Brad's feeling were hurt by this. I don't know him personally, like a lot of you. My objections were more general in nature, about the behavior of salesmen and not one man specifically.

At some point the discussion turned from the question of 'salesman' to what some perceived as an attack on an individual. That was never the case and it is unfortunate that the thread took that turn.

As I have said several times now, I, too, very much appreciate the contributions made to this forum and learn a lot from them. But I am also here because it is a non-commercial forum. No ads from MOTU, a little Google link to keep the place 'solvent' and no politics or religion. The perfect place to discuss making music and the issues we face in using MOTU products (as well as how they interface with our other stuff.)

I am also here because, for the most part, the members are polite to each other, tolerate of a wide range of musical style, experience and expertise, and EVEN tolerant of folks not using MOTU products AT ALL!

But when I perceive 'product placement' (intentional or not) in this arena, as a forum member I feel an obligation to myself and others to mention it. Which is what I did and I stand by my initial post. It has NOT been edited. You might want to re-read it.

That was NOT an attack on an individual, nor was it stalking.

[BradLyons]

......imagine you walk into the kitchen and you see a glass sitting on the table that is half full of ice-water. Clearly, this isn't from you but it's quite fresh, so you know someone else must have placed it there. So you're standing next to the sink looking at this glass, what do you do?

-Take a drink?
-Ignore it and walk away?
-Ask yourself who it belongs to and walk away?
-Start going through the house asking who it belongs to?
-Pour it out into the sink?
-Complain about why it's there getting water on the sink?
-Fill it back up so that who it does belong when they get it, it will be full for them to enjoy?

Think about it...

[sdfalk]

Hmmm

I re-read it.

This:

Yes, once you are caught with your pants down, it is generally a good idea to pull them back up!

was a bit much.

Other then that, you were perhaps a bit to aggressive.
Not to the point were it seemed (overly) rude however.
Regardless, Brad seems to be a sharp fellow.
I'd rather you both be around to offer insightful input into
the inner workings of software, music, hardware, whatever
as opposed to one of you getting pissed off and not coming
back.
Maybe Brads being overly sensitive, hard to say.
Maybe Brad should change his signature to reflect a more nuetral
(for lack of a better word) stance towards whatever products
he's discussing, and maybe there's more important things to worry
about.
Hopefully it gets worked out.
I just like coming back here and learning something new
(practically) every time I drop by.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Hmmm

I re-read it.

That was NOT the initial post. And maybe a bit harsh, but at the time it seemed appropriate. I am the first to admit I can be a bit crude and impulsive at times. Sorry, growing up in NYC will do that to you. It's a hard thing to take NY out of the NY'er. (At least I was able to drop most of the accent!) Yougottaproblemwiddat?!

I am not going anywhere (unless James bans me from the site!) and I repeat, I DO NOT WANT TO SEE BRAD LEAVE. Especially because of me.

As for the glass of water thing, I don't know what he is trying to say or what lesson he is trying to teach. Analogies are like generalizations. They are all dangerous (including this one.) I prefer people to come out and say what they mean in plain language. Dancing around the language is best left to politics - and we don't discuss them here.

[sdfalk]

Sorry..NOT the intial post.
However I re-read every post to get a general sense of the tone.
Things can escalate and get out of control very quickly even
when everything begins with the best possible intentions.
That appeared to be the case here.
I should have said I never base an opinion on just one post, but
on everything that was posted.
Whatever..kiss and make up already

[chrispick]

Whatever..kiss and make up already

Or just kiss. That's fun enough on its own. Especially for those of us on the sidelines.

[sdfalk]

Whatever..kiss and make up already

Or just kiss. That's fun enough on its own. Especially for those of us on the sidelines.

Dang..
and me without my camera