Tracks not playing back in DP 5.12

BobK · Post by **BobK** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:06 pm

I was playing back a project in DP 5.12 which I had previously been working on in 5.11. It has at least 24 mono audio tracks. At least four of these wouldn't play back.

-the tracks were enabled
-they were also play-enabled
-the soundbites were not muted
-the output assignments were OK
-the track faders were up
-other tracks were playing back, so my audio interface and monitors were fine

These tracks were sent through an aux track for submixing. I rebuilt the bus bundles and re-assigned the tracks - this didn't help. I also tried changing buffer settings, and checked that there were sufficient buses enabled in the studio configuration menu.

In order to open this in 5.11, I had to do a 'Save As' and copy the audio data. When I opened it in DP 5.11, the tracks in question played back immediately.

I didn't have time to do any more troubleshooting - I was doing an editing session with a colleague - so I've stopped using version 5.12.

I guess I should have tested the new version more extensively before trying to use it for a 'real' work session, but this is still very disappointing.

Anybody else had anything like this?

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat May 05, 2007 1:10 am

I've only opened a few projects in 5.12, and I've started zero new ones. The ones I opened were identical to 5.11, and I could not have told you that a new version had been installed if not for the missing bitrate pop-up on the hardware panel. Everything worked. In one project I used about 32 multi-timbral voices of audio in MOTU Symphonic Instrument, and even altered the output to hear throught the convenience of Soundsticks. Everything I did, 5.12 handled as if there were no question of there having been a version change.

BUT, I have not had occasion to explore very far in 5.12. I've simply not used many of the features yet, which is why I have not been writing too much about it. In my narrow-band universe in which my three current projects exist, things are working as they are supposed to.

Good luck getting it all sorted out. There IS a reason for what happened to you, and we'll all probably start coming across that reason soon as we venture out into deeper territory.

Shooshie

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sat May 05, 2007 1:41 am

Bob-- have you tried trashing you DP Preferences? Sometimes old preferences are loath to give way to that (those) of a new version.

MOTU will *probably* tell you that they cannot reproduce the problem, but you should inform them of your problem all the same. Thing is, MOTU would not likely have had the occasion to test new versions of DP with all manner of plugins, and some unforeseen burp between a new version of DP and an existing plugin may rear its ugly head without fanfare.

I suspect that some people might be experiencing install glitches-- not an unheard of problem with some MOTU apps. MachFive, for example, would not automatically update some essential files and would not work for some. These had to be manually removed and a reinstall had to be done-- at which time the proper files were placed in the proper places on the hard drive. Many people also had trouble with DP 5.x installers as well.

Even though it doesn't appear necessary to reboot the computer after updating, I would do it anyway. Again, shutting down the computer (as opposed to simple 'restart') will help dump stubborn UNIX code. Repairing permissions is always in order-- and a stealthy disc utility should always be on hand when trouble arises.

When all else fails (let's hope this isn't the case), a complete uninstall and reinstall is the next to last resort in getting clean copies of all files.

I don't think you want to hear about the last resort... not at the moment, anyway.

Keep us posted-- someone will likely have an answer for you-- and that someone might just be you! LOL! Seriously, if you do manage to stumble upon a fix, I can assure you there are many folks here who would appreciate hearing about what you tried that worked or didn't work.

I can think of five users off the top of my head who have done the 5.12 update and they are all brilliant folks. If there is a solution, the combo of these great minds will find it or no one will.

best of luck, dude!

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:42 am

I have have the same problem as BobK.
My problem seems to be related to Protools session audio sound files. As we all know Protools audio files are mono.

They all stay as mono in DP when I import them and I use aux tracks to stereo them if necessary.
On every version upto 5.12 this works fine. Now they will not play. You can see the file and the wave form, but no sound.

Maybe someone could confirm this.

Do this test.

Start a new song in DP with 5.11. Import a bunch of protools audio files ( if you have any of course )

Route the output and play. Should be fine.

Save the session and open it in 5.12.

Play again. No sound.

This happens everytime.
Load the same audio files into a 5.12 session and they will play. They will also import as stereo files where necessary.

It seems to me that the change Motu have made to the way DP works with audio files has affected the backwards play compatibility.

Now this only seems to be a problem with imported audio files from protools. I haven't had a problem with any audio files recorded in DP

I will send this information to Motu but I would be good if someone could confirm this.

My system is a G5 Intel 3g with PCIe424 and various interfaces (2408, HD192) into Yamaha DM2000

I have been using DP as my main DAW for 10 years so I'm used to the ups and down that have come our way. This is the first time there has ever been a problem with audio sound files.

Keith Bessey.

BobK · Post by **BobK** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:00 am

Thanks for the moral support, Shooshie and Frodo!

This project contains audio originally recorded in ProTools at a studio, a few overdubs I recorded in ProTools LE at home when I was trying out my 002R, and a large number of overdubs recorded in DP. The problem tracks contain audio I recorded in PTLE. In the Finder, they have the same icons as the ProTools files from the studio. They sounded fine when I played them back via Preview in the Finder.

Via 'get info', I changed them to open with DP 5.12 instead of ProTools. Then I opened the project again - it didn't help. Note that the other ProTools sd2 files are playing back fine.

A few more things:

-Soundbites from the problem tracks don't play back in the Soundbites window when I click on them.
-I tried enabling and then disabling the track inputs, record-enable buttons, and audio-monitor buttons, in addition to changing input monitoring mode - no dice.

I had similar playback problems either when going from DP 4.6-5 or upgrading to 5.11 (I don't recall which), and one solution I think, was to toggle the record enable button or maybe rebuild the bundle to get the audio path 'un-stuck.'

-I tried routing some other tracks through the same aux bus. They played back fine.
-Trashed DP Preferences and re-launched DP - still no luck. Thanks for the reminder, Frodo.
-Trashed MAS Preferences and re-launched DP - no help.

Frodo: if the 'you don't wanna hear about it' fix is re-installing the OS: I'd need convincing evidence that it was a problem in my system before doing that, dontcha think? So far, it's looking like a problem with DP5.12. When I had the playback issue before, it was a DP problem.

I emailed the problem file to MagicD. Hopefully we'll hear back next week...

OortNYC · Post by **OortNYC** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:04 am

Try to delete your Audio Bundles and re-create them. Then reassign all of the tracks to the new bundles. Sometimes it does the trick.

D -

BobK · Post by **BobK** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:06 am

I forgot to include it in my post, but I did rebuild the hardware output bundles early on, and it didn't help. I had to do it again after trashing MAS preferences - still no help. As I mentioned in the first post, rebuilding the aux bus bundles didn't help, and other tracks played back fine through that bus.

OortNYC · Post by **OortNYC** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:10 am

The only other thing that I can think of is that the headers for those audio files got deleted somehow. Perhaps if you open the audio files in another audio editor (Peak, etc.) as RAW audio and re-save them as SDII files it will fix the issue.

D -

BobK · Post by **BobK** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:33 am

D- thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I don't have Peak or any other audio editing software.

But your post got me thinking: if I were to try that, I'd want to merge the soundbites first, since there are a bunch of edits on these tracks. Why not try merging and see what happens to the new audio file? So, working on duplicates of the tracks (to be safe), I merged the soundbites, which are all from one parent audio file per track. The merged files play back!

This might be a usable work-around, but I'm sticking with version 5.11 for now.

OortNYC · Post by **OortNYC** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:38 am

I'm glad you fixed the issue. I think it might have been a header issue.
It has happened to me before. There is a cheap editor that lets you import raw audio if you need to in the future:
http://www.hairersoft.com/AmadeusPro/AmadeusPro.html

D -

Frodo · Post by **Frodo** » Sat May 05, 2007 12:34 pm

BobK wrote: Frodo: if the 'you don't wanna hear about it' fix is re-installing the OS: I'd need convincing evidence that it was a problem in my system before doing that, dontcha think?

Yep-- me-thought and me-think indeed, hence the reason why I would only allude to such a thing. It's so hard to tell sometimes what is actually causing the problem-- whether something in DP is simply not kicking in or whether something in the OS has gone to sleep.

The important thing is to narrow it down with some degree of certainty since MOTU claims difficulty with reproducing some problems. It leaves that one area untouched where their test machines are probably running a whole lot less than their users' machines are-- which *can be* a source of certain incompatibilities.

However......

So far, it's looking like a problem with DP5.12. When I had the playback issue before, it was a DP problem.

Looks as if you've achieved that "degree of certainty" without having to do the unthinkable.

I emailed the problem file to MagicD. Hopefully we'll hear back next week...

If anyone can address the issue, MagicD can.

Merging soundbites has been a solution for at least one other issue of playback glitches with fades which are all DP related. It doesn't appear that merging is part of the intended routine and more of a workaround. MOTU should make this clearer if it's part of the intended routine-- or fix the issue when merging soundbites becomes counter productive.

The change in file extension for PT compatibility is one step in the right direction. But PT/DP users have had one issue or another for some time now with file exchange. Let's hope MOTU can peel back the layers of this onion to not only treat the symptoms but really get to the heart of the problem.

Timeline · Post by **Timeline** » Sat May 05, 2007 3:00 pm

5.12 plays earlier files by chunk loading them. This is exactly what happened on 5.11 when I had the same issues.

I was able to fix it by loading the chunk in a new session for each of the messed up files. When you open the prefs for chunk imports make sure you check everything!.

Mr_Clifford · Post by **Mr_Clifford** » Sat May 05, 2007 5:14 pm

I had the exact same issue when I loaded up a 5.11 session into 5.12. No matter what I did one of the mono audio tracks wouldn't play back (also wouldn't audition in the soundbites window). I found that merging the soundbite fixed the problem. So far it's only happened the once.

The audio file had been imported into DP from a QT movie (it was the dialog guide) then I had offline-processed it with a TC Powercore plug-in - don't know if that had anything to do with it.

mhschmieder · Post by **mhschmieder** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:23 am

Excuse my ignorance, but is there something specific to ProTools that is relevant here, or is the dominant theme that imported mono audio tracks that are saved from earlier versions of DP do not play when the project is reopened in 5.12?

I have never owned ProTools so don't know much about it, but thought I remembered that being where the Sound Designer II format originated. s this the format in which you are importing audio tracks?

If so, I may be able to run a number of experiments to get at the bottom of this, as almost all of my projects from when I first went digital involve dual mono import, as I was so incompetent at the time (being new to home computers and digital recording simultaneously), that I somehow managed to import ALL of my 20 years worth of legacy analog projects as mono SD II audio files.

I haven't a clue how I managed this screw-up, but it means I have a lot of atypical mono-file DP projects (with separate .L and .R tracks in SD II format, up to four or even eight tracks per project), many of which haven't been opened or worked with in years, and some of which haven't been touched since OS 9 and DP 3.5

Please let me know if it would be helpful to run project and/or audio file importation experiments on any of these projects/files using DP 5.12.

BobK · Post by **BobK** » Sun May 06, 2007 11:05 am

OortNYC wrote:I'm glad you fixed the issue. I think it might have been a header issue. It has happened to me before. There is a cheap editor that lets you import raw audio if you need to in the future:
http://www.hairersoft.com/AmadeusPro/AmadeusPro.html

Thanks, D. Can you say a word about how Amadeus Pro compares to something like Peak? Obviously, I wouldn't need Peak for a simple task like changing the header; but I've been thinking of getting a separate audio editor since I find DP's hard to use, and I don't know what you get for spending ten times more for Peak.

Edit: I demoed Amadeus Pro, imported two of the problem audio files as RAW, saved them as sd2, and loaded them into the DP Project. Still no sound.

MOTUnation.com

Tracks not playing back in DP 5.12

Tracks not playing back in DP 5.12

Could some one confirm this. Problem with 5.12