Multichannel (surround) mixing on powerbook

[jhbauer]

From what I've been able to learn DP is the very best choice (at least at the price) for creating multichannel (a/k/a surround) mixes. My question is whether it will run effectively on a Powerbook (17" 1.67) for that purpose. I would mainly be using limited effects processing on files and creating surround mixes. I will not be using any of the MIDI or related features.

Thanks very much for your comments.

[BKK-OZ]

Surround sound doens't really add any extra overheads per se, in terms of CPU/processing anyway.

It does of course, require additional drive space -depending on your way of working that is. For example, if you track in mostly mono or stereo and then save the use of surround until your final mix-down, there won't be any real difference in space used over a standard stereo project. If however, you run up a bunch of surround tracks as part of your project, well, then you can go thru hard-drive space pretty quickly.

In terms of DP & surround, yes, it has a lot more going for it than Logic, tho Nuendo (and ProTools) both have a very good surround tool set (from what I have read - I settled on DP for surround and haven't used the others).

In terms of DP, make sure you start out with 4.5/6, I am stuck for the moment on 4.12 and there are serveral BUGS w/surround panners in 4.12 that can make life a pain.

Have you figured out how you are going to monitor your mixes?

[jhbauer]

Originally posted by BKK-OZ:

It does of course, require additional drive space -depending on your way of working that is. For example, if you track in mostly mono or stereo and then save the use of surround until your

That is fine, I will be using an external drive for editing.

In terms of DP & surround, yes, it has a lot more going for it than Logic, tho Nuendo (and ProTools) both have a very good surround tool set (from what I have read - I settled on DP for surround and haven't used the others).

Other than Pro-Tools, (much too expensive) the only other competent looking DAW with surround I've seen is Logic Pro, but I've been told that the surround implementaton is limited Logic in that doesn't fully implement surround. you are able to pan a mono or stereo file but you can not import and edit an individual surround file like you can in DP because logic doesn't really have a surround audio "object" "track"

I had hoped to use Soundtrack Pro, since I don't need the MIDI implementation but STP appears to be purely stereo, with surround as an afterthought, that is, pan is limited to between two channels at a time.

Have you figured out how you are going to monitor your mixes?

For the moment I have a set of four older small B&W speakers, after I've completed my move and settled in I intend to build a four channel Lowther speaker system powered by modified t-amp's.

Since I am going to be moving around for at least the next three or four months, I've become interested in the various "cheap" 5.1 headphones I've seen advertised as a temporary measure.

I asked about CPU overhead with DP because MOTU technical support gave me an ambiguous answer (a generic these are the minimum requirements and these are the recommended requirements). Needless to say, the recommended requirements were essentially top of the line; not possible for me at this time.

I appreciate your comments. I'd prefer to get a DP/Traveler package (good price) if it's usable on a Powerbook since Soundtrack Pro, although less expensive won't do it and Logic seems to be incomplete.

<small>[ July 15, 2005, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: JHB ]</small>

[BKK-OZ]

Yeah, you are right about Logic's shortcomings. I got an A/B comparision when I was considering jumping to Logic 7, and DP has much more going for it in terms of surround than Logic.

In terms of monitoring, AFAIK, there are no truly surround headphones -they all have some sort of 'simulation', so I would be wary of using them for monitoring. To be true surround, you really do need the separate speakers, and none have this, and of course, the LFE channel just won't be the same - a 2" speaker just can't replace a sub-woofer.

I have looked into these b4 as a means to provide another option when I do installations, but none of them really do surround properly (correct me if I am wrong here, but I am pretty sure that's right.)

The cheapest solution is to get a traveller, 828, etc., and take the separate outs from that into a domestic surround reciever (one that has individual inputs for each channel - just get 1/4" to RCA cables for the connections). That way you can tell your wife/girlfriend/mother/boyfriend/cat that you "...had to get a home theatre set-up, its for my work you see..." and occaisionally, just occaisionally, you can watch the odd movie on it too.

[jhbauer]

Originally posted by BKK-OZ:
Yeah, you are right about Logic's shortcomings. I got an A/B comparision when I was considering jumping to Logic 7, and DP has much more going for it in terms of surround than Logic.

Pity so little interest in the surround audio side, for the most part - even though DP has it, I've seen little discussion. Even on this forum these doesn't seem much interest (or at least, not very many posts).

In terms of monitoring, AFAIK, there are no truly surround headphones -they all have some sort of 'simulation', so I would be wary of using them for monitoring. To be true surround, you really do need the separate speakers, and none have this, and of course, the LFE channel just won't be the same - a 2" speaker just can't replace a sub-woofer.

You are absolutely correct on the .1 LFE channel, a physical impossibility on headphones - I'm less concerned with that aspect and as a compromise can simulate (in my head) until I can revise on a real system, plus I'm mostly interested in the front mains & surround channels. But-- There are headphones with multiple small discrete drivers.

Check out:
http://www.bit-tech.net/review/261/ and
http://www.zalmanusa.com/usa/product/view.asp?idx=110&code=023 or
http://www.listentobelieve.com/ (LTB several models).

Of course they are a compromise, but then, if you are moving around and want to do at least a rough mix, why not, they are really inexpensive (less than $100).

The cheapest solution is to get a traveller, 828, etc., and take
[/QB]

A Traveler plus DP is what I'm looking at!

Thanks!

[BKK-OZ]

Thanx for the links, I'll hava looksee.

Yeah, I know what you mean about it being so quiet about surround here (no pun intended). The old Unicornation hada fairly active forum (post), but I dunno where those guys have got to.

In terms of monitoring/mixing, I tend to live by the old Motown approach. I dunno if its justa story, but I understand that they used to hava car out in the lot wired up so that they could do a mix and then run out to the car and listen back to it using the AM radio in the car. The idea being that none of their audience was ever going to come into the studio to hear their tracks. (If you listen to some old Motown mixes, that story becomes believable - HUGE loudness eq's.)

I mix as much by sight and number as anything (using level meters, measuring outputs, etc.) and then I burn mixes to trial DVD'd and take them to friend's places - listening to your tracks on 5 different systems tells you more (I think) than you could ever get from the 'perfect' studio monitoring set-up, and besides, I can't afford the 'perfect' monitoring set-up!

[bsantoro]

I did one 5.1 surround sound project in DP with a G4/733 tower with 1.25 GB RAM and it worked-out great. I now have a Powerbook G4 17 1.67 GHz that has twice the speed and 2.0 GBytes of RAM installed.

I haven't tried a surround sound project yet with the Powerbook; but, if I could do it on a G4 with half the CPU speed and almost half the RAM, you should be able to do it on your Powerbook.

I monitored the sound through a cheap set of satellite speakers, a sub-woofer and a Sony amplifier that has 6 separate analog inputs. Six of my 828 outputs went to the amplifier with standard 1/4" cables. Rigfht from Digital Performer, I was able to somewhat monitor the surround sound mix as I created it.

I encoded the final mixed-down 6 mono channels with A.Pack AC3 encoder that was part of Apple's DVD Studio Pro software. I burned the final DVD disk with DVD Studio Pro, popped the DVD into my home theater system with better speakers and amplifier. I was blown away at how good the final surround sound mix sounded.

I found the user interface in DP to be extremely intuitive and comprehensive. Good luck on your future projects.

bsantoro

http://homepage.mac.com/bob_santoro/my_music.html

[griffter]

I have done some surround sound for a show on a 5.1 PA. The setup was a Metric Halo 2882 and a 1GHz 15" PB with 768MB Ram. I was playing a motorbike sample in real time and was able to pan it in 5.1 via a USB Joystick linked to the Surround panner on DP.. It seemed quite stable!

[pastiche27]

hello we've met in quiktime apple discussions.... if you really need some answers about surround give me an email... i've been doing surround in dp since 3.0 and actually b4 that but without the percs.

im still using my dual 530 mac and im using my PB 1.6 but i like to have more screen realestate.... so dual 530 it is right now

[Aramis]

Surround mixing and real time projects .....

I have builded a nice little setup to do that ....
I am using a G5 with an RME 9652 interface with a Beringher ada8000 for analog connects ....
I feed my outputs from the ada8000 to a Logitech 5.1 set of speakers ......trough the analog inputs ....
You can do the same with any multi-out interface .....
I have not found yet a setup with headphones ....
I will maybe investigate a plugin called 3Dpannerstudio from Spin Audio

Aramis

[jhbauer]

Thanks to all of you for your helpful replies. This is a great online community!

[BKK-OZ]

Originally posted by Aramis:
Surround mixing and real time projects .....

I will maybe investigate a plugin called 3Dpannerstudio from Spin Audio

Aramis

That's a windows only tool...

[Aramis]

BKK_OZ ,
Yes that is a PC only plug in ....
I have a PC also and plenty of adat i/o ....
So I will investigate this for a surround mixing setup thru headphones ....
There is also Panorama on the mac but it is more limited ....
I will see .
Aramis