Copyright Law? Are chords entitled to a songwriter's %?

[toodamnhip]

Life is fill of fools

True enough. Just try to stay above their level and then just sit back and watch them do what they do best.

Well..I wanna say something here..

Everyone chimming in makes me think of this as a bit of a family.
Annd it would take a family for me to share this personal drama....

SO I am thankful for everyone here for commenting and grateful to have such a place to go.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

<edited by author>

[James Steele]

I agree... I appreciate the experience that many of you have and that you share it. Many if not most of you are more knowledgeable than me in many areas. I'm going to have my own set of questions as I get nearer to finishing my CD as I'm fairly new to many issues I'm encountering, and I know there are many of you who can give me advice that will save me a lot of grief.

[toodamnhip]

...makes me think of this as a bit of a family....

<in a Brando accent>...

If you were truly part of the family, too-dama, we could mak-a your friend and his consulariere an offer they could not-a refus-a. Some day we will ask-a you for a favor and you will-a remember this-a day. Guiro, mak-a my friend a drink...

That would be fun considering that the a -hole just sent me an e mail lustiing after my teen daughter and asking me to ask her to be his myspace friend..she's 16!

Isn;t it amazing, when it rains it pors.
Here we have an asshole, and me trying to gather the strength to cut my losses, be the bigger man. And this insult to injury?

I'll tell you, I'd not refuse your cement shoes if offered, however, just before the tip of his nose went under water..I'd hand him a ••••ing pen and a contract giving me what I wanted and deserved...

Then, I'd let him soak with his nose just above water for a few hrs to think about my daughter....

Can you believe it?

[James Steele]

That would be fun considering that the a -hole just sent me an e mail lustiing after my teen daughter and asking me to ask her to be his myspace friend..she's 16!

What's this tool's MySpace URL? Send in a PM. I'd really like to see what such a moron looks like.

[toodamnhip]

That would be fun considering that the a -hole just sent me an e mail lustiing after my teen daughter and asking me to ask her to be his myspace friend..she's 16!

What's this tool's MySpace URL? Send in a PM. I'd really like to see what such a moron looks like.

You know Bro, with that leather jacket of yours, and you live in SD...

Hmm..I could buy you dinner, you could come on up and we could take this guy and.......errrrrr..

Ah yes..fantasy...

I don;t lknow his effin myspace, and I don;t want to flame the fires anymore. My attorney(s) will get what they can and I will get out of this madness...my butt will be sore after taking it in the shorts, but seems like life does that crap to us all sometimes right?

Thanks for offering to yell at the "tool". This is a man I had at my own dinner table. I try to make all my clients comfortable and treat them like family...

I think what happened is he misinformed an attorney when asking for advice, who then took my clients mis-information and gave him advice as if I am some sort of crook.

Then, this guy, being of low IQ, forgot his bent catagorization of our prior efforts in the studio and only heard the advice to not give me a damn thing. Then. he can say how an attorney told him what is right and wrong.

My ex wife did this ••••. The funny thing is, on a cursory level, people really believe they are right and only following counsel's advice.

They truly believe the lies they create. they have to believe the lies they create! TO do otherwise would force them to admit being wrong. And it takes a strongperson to bbe able to do such a thing. Wekka liars believe their own lies for self survival.

Sounds like a good time to write a song...yikes.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

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[toodamnhip]

-the a -hole just sent me an e mail lustiing after my teen daughter and asking me to ask her to be his myspace friend..she's 16!...

Is he under age as well? If not, you may have a SERIOUS charge against him. If you really wanted to take this guy down, and he is of age, report the email to the police. Anything he does after that may be considered retaliation by a judge. Stalking is WAY MORE SERIOUS than a small contractual issue.

If he is under age and no one signed for him in your studio, ANY agreements he might have made will not be leagally binding. He need to be 18 to enter into an agreement.

If what you are saying is true and he is of age, you have him. SAVE THE EMAIL! This could actually be a serious offense and land him in the clinker!

Well..it's funny, at the end of the 4 tracks i did, he started saying all kinds of flirtatious things about my daughter and I called him on it.
Some e mails were exchanged where i took the higher ground and told him to behave. Then at the end of all this BS, he just slipped in another flirtation. I could really be an ass and have my daighter trap him..lol He's like 38 yrs old dude!

But I think the police will need more than this to do anything..he hasn;t gotten graphic nor asked for sex, just spoken of how hot she is, how hot she'll look when she's 18, to have her call him when she's 18, be on his myspace..you know the law, you have to really do •••• for them to act.

I will run it by my attorneys...

[James Steele]

Well..it's funny, at the end of the 4 tracks i did, he started saying all kinds of flirtatious things about my daughter and I called him on it.
Some e mails were exchanged where i took the higher ground and told him to behave. Then at the end of all this BS, he just slipped in another flirtation. I could really be an ass and have my daighter trap him..lol He's like 38 yrs old dude!

What an ass! And he's talking like this to YOU, her father? This guy IS indeed a moron.

BTW, I wasn't going to harass him or anything if you gave me his MySpace page... I just wanted to see what a guy like this looks like is all. I have good friends, who well... have very attractive teenage daughters. However, that's a line I don't cross legally and morally and on top of that, they'd be liable to clock me upside the head before I got to say "I was kidding man!" LOL

[toodamnhip]

I have been drafting up some POSSIBLE language for my lawyer to incorporate into a release form in the event I release masters to this fool. This was a great idea by James, to have the guy sign a release. Due to the fact that you have all been so helpful, I am including my really rough draft herein. Feel free to read it and chime in with any ideas for me to add. This will go to my lawyer tomorrow morning. Thanks all you legal beagles, yes, I know, you are all NOT lawyers and your advice is not binding...don;t worry about wordings as I hav left it rough, the lawyers figure that out. Just new ideas for things to include are desired..

********************************
Contract Language for release of masters


••• ••œWe hereby release to you David ------••™s copy of the masters under the following conditions:
••• A- That these DEMO/Masters are being given to you as a courtesy of Little Hipster Music and David -----, whom are under no contractual obligation to deliver said masters to you, such masters normally being for in house use only, with a stereo file being the normal delivery method. Also, that David ---- is under no obligation to keep additional back ups of said masters.
•••
••• B- That you understand that due to the nature of computer based audio, these master files may not play back exactly as contained on your original stereo mixes when played on other computer systems due to variences in system configurations, software and hardware. You are being given the master just as they were left the last time the songs were mixed and mastered for you at Little Hipster Music. Little Hipster Music nor David ---- is NOT responsible for these files playability on other systems.
••• C -Mr. ---- is under no obligation to do any more work on the masters for you as his hourly payments have been utilized and you have no credits remaining with his studio.
•••
••• D-You attest that you are satisfied with the work received by you thus far and will not hold David ---- and Little Hipster responsible for any claimed or perceieved inadequacies in the productions.
••• E-Any future, additional work is recognized to be at the sole discretion of David ----, who is under no contractual obligation to you to deliver any more work. Mr. ---- will bill you his full rate of ------ an hour for any additional work on the masters to prep them for universal playback in other systems. Moreover, he will bill you in advance if he so chooses to do any more work and you will not be present at the studio when such work is done without David ----••™s advance, written authorization.

•••
••• AS TO PRODUCER CREDIT AND SONGWRITER CREDIT
••• Without admission of guilt or agreement on the following claims made by David ----, you attest full understanding of the following: that-
••• It is David ----'s contention that he co-produced the following 4 songs with you in the studio-Chiquita Bonita-Land of the Free-Walk Away and When You••™re Here. At present,, ----------- and David ---- disagree on this matter. By signing this document, you attest to the fact that you understand clearly that David ---- disputes your claim that he did not produce the tracks with you, and objects to you using any of his performances, ideas or production for anything more than a simple demo to show the songs. that it was David ----'s understanding that these songs were to be a demo and not utilized commercially and thus, his performances were for demonstration purposes only. You hereby understand that david ---- reserves all rights for future litagation and renumeration for his work as a producer and or performer on the track should it be used for anything more than a demo, or, should any of it;s parts be utilized in any commercial release in the future.
••• It is David ----••™s contention that he also co-wrote the following 3 songs with you in the studio after your songs came to him incomplete and needing chords, melody, melody clarification and other songwriting additions, all contained in the cassette WRITING work tapes-Chiquita Bonita-Land of the Free-Walk Away. At present,, -------- and David ---- disagree on this matter. By signing this document, you attest to the fact that you understand clearly that David ---- disputes your claim that he did not co-write the songs with you, and objects to you using or licensing any of these songs until such time as there has been a formal agreement on songwroiers % fully incorporating David---- as a co-writer on said songs., You also understand that by law, a work is co-written the moment it is put into a fixed form and cannot thereafter be separated into it••™s compnent parts.You hereby understand that david ---- reserves all rights for future litagation and renumeration for his creative input as a writer on the songs.
••• You understand and warrant that David ---- will be credited with all instrumental, programming and mixing for the 4 tracks in this contract/

Addendum:

You also understand clearly that David ---- objects to any comments from you about his daughter••™s being attractive, hot, cute, or any other such sexual or flirtatious comments, that David ---- finds such comments distasteful and inappropriate and, being that both girls are minors, David ---- will contact the authorities should these comments or any unauthorized contact between your self and _______ and _______ occur.

You understand that David---- does not want you on his property without express written permission, and will file restraining orders on you should there be any unauthorized presence by you at his home or recording facility, or should there be any type of contact interpreted by David ----as threatening.

[James Steele]

I think it's pretty good, though to be honest I don't think there's much use in getting him to acknowledge that you have a dispute with him over the songwriting issues, etc. Unless there's language otherwise, I don't see how you need it in order to have the right to bring up this other dispute later, in the rare occasionl that this guy amounts to something and it would be worth your while.

I'd also definitely leave out the stuff about your daughter, etc. The idea to me is to turn this guy into a small fading dot in your rear view mirror. It's also to get him to sign it and he won't sign that because even though you've said "without admitting guilt, etc." someone won't sign something so adversarial. What I suggest is you just hand him the project, have him sign the document that only covers the stuff about compatibility of the project files, etc. and then be rid of him.

I'll lay you odds that in a few months or less this turd is going to want to come back to you and have you print effects, etc. At that point you can quote him something exorbidant and he'll either pay through the nose or go away. I'm betting that if he's stupid enough to walk out with just the project files without the plugs necessary (and he will probably consider wrongly that this was a big win), he will never get his project finished any way. As I said, he'll come back to you for help and you can charge him up the wazoo, or be just "too busy" to work on his project.

[toodamnhip]

I think it's pretty good, though to be honest I don't think there's much use in getting him to acknowledge that you have a dispute with him over the songwriting issues, etc. Unless there's language otherwise, I don't see how you need it in order to have the right to bring up this other dispute later, in the rare occasionl that this guy amounts to something and it would be worth your while.

I'd also definitely leave out the stuff about your daughter, etc. The idea to me is to turn this guy into a small fading dot in your rear view mirror. It's also to get him to sign it and he won't sign that because even though you've said "without admitting guilt, etc." someone won't sign something so adversarial. What I suggest is you just hand him the project, have him sign the document that only covers the stuff about compatibility of the project files, etc. and then be rid of him.

I'll lay you odds that in a few months or less this turd is going to want to come back to you and have you print effects, etc. At that point you can quote him something exorbidant and he'll either pay through the nose or go away. I'm betting that if he's stupid enough to walk out with just the project files without the plugs necessary (and he will probably consider wrongly that this was a big win), he will never get his project finished any way. As I said, he'll come back to you for help and you can charge him up the wazoo, or be just "too busy" to work on his project.

I already charge everyone up the wazzo..lol..what's after a wazzoo?..

Well, anyway, thanks James, more food for thought..if my lawyer tones it down, and he'll sign it, I'd like to document the circumstances under which the tracks were released..

we'll see what happens, it;s been an ezpensive, wasted day, do you have any ideas for a general studio disclaimer that covets the eventualities of unexpected songwriter's credit when in the studio?

The thing that must change is I need a contract for the smaller projects that come through here. The big ones, although there have been problems there too, aleady have lawyers

[MIDI Life Crisis]

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[toodamnhip]

I already charge everyone up the wazzo..lol..what's after a wazzoo?..

Unemployment?

I totally agree with James. You want him to sign the agreement, not incriminate himself. Even if your lawyer doesn't "tone it down" the opposing council will.

But I do know how you feel. I routinely call my © lawyer and make giant demands, He puts me back in perspective which I see as part of his job. In the end, it is about having their money in your pocket, not revenge or dragging someone thru the mud. Sure, that is fine for the "Good Fellas" but in the civilized world of law, that is just not how it works. Painful as it may be, most often lawyers want their clients to walk away "saving face." The faster you get to realize that pojnt and concede in drafting your agreement, the faster this will be behind you and you can bilk another wazooo.

BTW,NOTHING is more satisfying that quoting someone 3 or 4 times your usual fee and getting it. In the fair trade market that is called price gouging. In the world of free-lance music it is called good business sense... ESPECIALLY if it is someone you couldn;t care less about working with (which is why you price yourself that high sometimes). It always kills me when they say YES and pull out the check book. I guess THAT is what comes after the wazoo?

Your advice is right about toning it down. The interesting thing is, this dude is without counsel now, being stupid and representing himself. So , let's see if we can get him to sign..I doubt he will, but who knows, at least we can say we offered him the masters if he would only acknowlege an understanding of my position.

[Phil O]

TDH, I've been lurking this thread since your first post. I haven't chimed in because others have said exactly what I would have said. I've found myself in similar situations (but none as severe as this), and like James I hate to stuff contracts in people's faces. Please keep us posted on the progress of this case. It's important to all of us.

I feel your pain man,
Phil