Copyright Law? Are chords entitled to a songwriter's %?

[James Steele]

...verbally promised songwriter credits and producer's points.

Man... I understand where you're coming from, but it sounds like you're dealing with a liar. Written contracts are the only way to deal with these types... as any sort of verbal agreement, unless perhaps witnessed by more than one credible and un-biased witness, is worth very little.

I hate shoving contracts in front of people as I always feel bad about it, like I'm saying to someone "I don't trust you." More accurately, it means "I don't know you." I insulated myself from this recently by having my girlfriend (who was dressed professionally and presents herself well) give the contracts to background singers in the reception area of the studio prior to me coming out and meeting them. I didn't get any flack from any of them. The only person who would give you flack is someone who doesn't intend to keep their word and you don't want to work with those people anyway.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

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[toodamnhip]

...Well..the suit is over me turning over or not turning over the masters. And my beef back is verbally promised songwriter credits and producer's points...

Then it is even worse for you, my friend. If you were hired to record the songs and were paid to do so, unless you have a written agreement to the contrary, the recording belong to the client and you will be forced to return them to him.

As far as verbal agreements, they are NOT BINDING in most cases, especially if there is no collaborative relationship. If you created some melodies and some lyrics, then you might be entitled to claim ©, but you have to prove that. It would be equally hard for the client to claim a work made for hire (maybe impossible) since there was no written agreement to that effect.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ9.html

If you are being sued for the masters, it will be a contract dispute and likely handled in Municiple or Superior court. You cannot make a copyright claim except in Federal court and even then only AFTER you have received a certificate of copyright from the LOC. After looking at the expenses, do you really think pursuing an infringement claim would be worth it? I think not. Talk to an INTELLECTUAL PROERTY attorney, they will tell you the same thing (unless they are out to bilk you). You really have no claim and the court will find that you will have to return the tapes. Period.Save yourself a lot of grief. Give the guy his tapes and move on. That is the best invenstment you can make, difficult as it may be to accept.

Well, what do you think of this strategy?
Use lawyer to get what I can, and protect me form the thing getting even more out of control and expect to have to give in after getting what I can?

Also, there is another matter, we all know that masters are sometiems worthless unless made into stems, recorded into audio etc. Especially when a guy like me has tons of 3rd party apps and plugs.

I feel NO obligation to do any more work on the assholes files. IF he has files that don;t translate to other sytemes, play without plugs etc..I don;t think I am liable for that as he paid hourly and got what he paid for, even turning down my long ago stated question as to di dhe want tv and instrumental mixes. He said no. Then months later reneges on his word, well, I am not in any mood to work any more on his masters to make them usable to other studios.

I owe him no time. He'd have to pay for more time and I do not want to work any more for a liar.
Your thoughts?

[James Steele]

This is a fascinating thread, but I do think it's best to move it to the "Music Business" forum.

Nooooooo!

Yesssssssssss... that's the forum it belongs in. If none of you WANT to look at the Music Business forum, that's on you... not on me for not shoving it into the "Digital Performer" Forum which it has NOTHING to do with.... uh... respectfully.

[James Steele]

It's a shame when info vital to us all gets unread...

That's why I snuck it into the "BIG CITY".

That's true. So if so many think that these Music Business topics are so vital, you might want to check that forum from time to time.

[toodamnhip]

It's a shame when info vital to us all gets unread...

That's why I snuck it into the "BIG CITY".

That's true. So if so many think that these Music Business topics are so vital, you might want to check that forum from time to time.

You're right..


I liked your thread on session singers..I have a whole library of absolute master quality "demos" done with a fairly big deal songwriting partner..and I let him take care of the biz, and now, I have no releases and the singers are big and thus, I cannot use these songs for film and TV...

Live and Learn...or die trying

[MIDI Life Crisis]

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[toodamnhip]

[Well, what do you think of this strategy?
Use lawyer to get what I can...

What are your losses? What do you expect a lawyer to 'get' for you?

It seems you were paid to do the recordings. Engineering (adding plugs, mixing, etc) may well be considered part of that although I generally think of that as something the producer controls. If you suggested plugs, ets. ON THE CLIENTS TIME and they approved or disapproved the changes, then that is part of the recording they paid for. I do realize the creative part of that process, believe me. But if you remove the processing and/or make the recordings unplayable on other systems, etc., a judge may well treat that a sabotage of the clients property. This will not bode well for you should you loose the case (which I suspect you will). The judge (there will likely NOT be a jury) may decide to increase the fine and even find you guilt of tampering with evidence, impeding justice and contempt of court ifthe tapes are requested by opposing council (and they will be!)

I've been in this business full time since 1976 and part time for many years before that. My ONLY suggestion to you give the jerk his (her?) tapes (or CD) and walk away. Take the high road. You may have some initial "what if" regrets, but in the long run you will be so much better off.

NEXT!

Well..i wasn't asking about tampering with the masters..

I was asking about handing them over as-is, and if the guy takes them elsewhere and there are plug in the next studio doesnt have, is it my problem?

I would just hand them over as they last existed in my studio.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

<edited by author>

[James Steele]

I was asking about handing them over as-is, and if the guy takes them elsewhere and there are plug in the next studio doesnt have, is it my problem?

I would just hand them over as they last existed in my studio.

I think perhaps you have an opportunity to get some compensation here and maybe extract something to make you feel a little better. You could agree to give him the project as is, but explain that another studio may not own the same plugs, and that if he would like, for an extra charge, you can print the effects to tracks and charge him your full book rate for said work. If he opts out, get him to sign something to that effect.

[toodamnhip]

I was asking about handing them over as-is, and if the guy takes them elsewhere and there are plug in the next studio doesnt have, is it my problem?

I would just hand them over as they last existed in my studio.

I think perhaps you have an opportunity to get some compensation here and maybe extract something to make you feel a little better. You could agree to give him the project as is, but explain that another studio may not own the same plugs, and that if he would like, for an extra charge, you can print the effects to tracks and charge him your full book rate for said work. If he opts out, get him to sign something to that effect.

Good advice JAmes, I can offer a full rate stem creation, and tell him he must sign an understanding that files may not translate to other sytems..I like that man..But he's such an ass, he might not even sign that.

There are other factors too to make this more interesting. He used my 11 yr old as a BG singer. She sigend a release, I do not think I co-signed it.
Thus, it is invalid. I also have not signed a release for my vocals and performance. I could argue this was to be a demo and therefore cannot be used as a master without proper releases, adding more pressure for this guy to be reasonable. What do you think of that?

[musicarteca]

This is a fascinating thread, but I do think it's best to move it to the "Music Business" forum.

Nooooooo!

Yesssssssssss... that's the forum it belongs in. If none of you WANT to look at the Music Business forum, that's on you... not on me for not shoving it into the "Digital Performer" Forum which it has NOTHING to do with.... uh... respectfully.

Well one solution could be to move the thread and still keep a link to it on the main forum, so those that were following it will not get dissapointed, after all this thread was already quite grown up when it got dumped.

[James Steele]

I was asking about handing them over as-is, and if the guy takes them elsewhere and there are plug in the next studio doesnt have, is it my problem?

I would just hand them over as they last existed in my studio.

I think perhaps you have an opportunity to get some compensation here and maybe extract something to make you feel a little better. You could agree to give him the project as is, but explain that another studio may not own the same plugs, and that if he would like, for an extra charge, you can print the effects to tracks and charge him your full book rate for said work. If he opts out, get him to sign something to that effect.

Good advice JAmes, I can offer a full rate stem creation, and tell him he must sing an understanding that files may not translate to other sytems..I like that man..But he's such an ass, he might not even sign that.

There are other factors too to make this more interesting. He used my 11 yr old as a BG singer. She sigend a release, I do not think I co-signed it.
Thus, it is invalid. I also have not signed a release for my vocals and performance. I could argue this was to be a demo and therefore cannot be used as a master without proper releases, adding more pressure for this guy to be reasonable. What do you think of that?

I don't know about a release for your performance...

However, as far as getting him to sign something, I'd just prepare something called "Release of Master to Client" and tell him it's just "general procedure" and include some innocuous language that says once it leaves your studio he's responsible for taking care of it and that he agrees you are not responsible for maintaining backups. You could also include a provision regarding the fact that another studio may not have the same plug-ins and without creating stems (for an additional charge) another studio will need to own or purchase these plug-ins. Like was said, you want to put your best face forward, so I might go so far as to include as an attachment listing the plugs used in the project too.

Frankly, as you pointed out, this guy is cutting off his nose to spite his face, and by pulling this stunt at this stage of production he's really screwing himself-- he just hasn't realized it yet.

[toodamnhip]

I think perhaps you have an opportunity to get some compensation here and maybe extract something to make you feel a little better. You could agree to give him the project as is, but explain that another studio may not own the same plugs, and that if he would like, for an extra charge, you can print the effects to tracks and charge him your full book rate for said work. If he opts out, get him to sign something to that effect.

Good advice JAmes, I can offer a full rate stem creation, and tell him he must sing an understanding that files may not translate to other sytems..I like that man..But he's such an ass, he might not even sign that.

There are other factors too to make this more interesting. He used my 11 yr old as a BG singer. She sigend a release, I do not think I co-signed it.
Thus, it is invalid. I also have not signed a release for my vocals and performance. I could argue this was to be a demo and therefore cannot be used as a master without proper releases, adding more pressure for this guy to be reasonable. What do you think of that?

I don't know about a release for your performance...

However, as far as getting him to sign something, I'd just prepare something called "Release of Master to Client" and tell him it's just "general procedure" and include some innocuous language that says once it leaves your studio he's responsible for taking care of it and that he agrees you are not responsible for maintaining backups. You could also include a provision regarding the fact that another studio may not have the same plug-ins and without creating stems (for an additional charge) another studio will need to own or purchase these plug-ins. Like was said, you want to put your best face forward, so I might go so far as to include as an attachment listing the plugs used in the project too.

Frankly, as you pointed out, this guy is cutting off his nose to spite his face, and by pulling this stunt at this stage of production he's really screwing himself-- he just hasn't realized it yet.

Excuse my Fench but:
Exact-a-••••ing-lutely

He hasn't realized what a fool he is as his whole damn master is great because of me...

Now he's gonna hire some hip hop cronnie to come and bitch about what I should have done on this and that, and it will lack the magic that I am known for in my tracks and he'll think he's won in the short term, and blame me for losing in the long run...

Life is fill of fools

[James Steele]

Life is fill of fools

True enough. Just try to stay above their level and then just sit back and watch them do what they do best.