Studio talk then and now

[BobK]

Heard this recently from a colleague.

The producer or engineer gets on the talk-back mic and invites the artist(s) into the control room to listen to the take they just completed.

In the old days, pre-digital-editing:

'That was great, come on in.'

Nowadays, with digital editing:

'That sucked, come on in.'

[Shooshie]

Fully translated:

That sucked! Come on in and let me fix it at $75/hour! We've got the tools now to make silk purses from sow's ears! Come swine, come all! It just takes a few more hours per track minute than actually practicing the part and doing it right, so why worry yourself with all that lonely practice and work? We can make you great!



Shooshie

[Jim]

True enough. But the decline in music goes beyond cheap production equipment. What passes for a silk purse these days isn't what it used to be. Most artists today shoot for mediocrity, and they damn well achieve it in many cases.

It's not just the artist's fault. The public is uneducated in quality, and that's likely due to various social, economic and political factors. When the sum total of one's exposure to music consists of the likes of those bands at the top of the charts today, we have nations populated and economies driven by uneducated consumers. And that's the way the fat cats want it: An educated consumer is less likely to buy the crap the smart fat cats are selling. Add to that the hipster ignoramuses who label music that required some education, study or discipline as "pretentious," "without feeling" and "self-indulgent," and the gullible hipster-ignoramuses-in-training who digest it and repeat the lie.

[kinnylandrum]

gullible hipster-ignoramuses-in-training who digest it and repeat the lie.

I like that

[Shooshie]

What you say is true, and yet there are more orchestras today than at any time in history, as far as I can tell, and more recordings--certainly more audiophile recordings--of classical music, jazz, and folk than at any time before. Actually I'm not so sure about that. A lot of the 60s classical recordings got lost in the shift to digital. But I think in terms of sheer numbers, classical music has grown in its base.

But as a percentage of society, and ESPECIALLY as a percentage of music listeners, classical music, jazz, and anything else worth calling "educated" has dwindled to a tiny percentage of the total. Nevertheless, I go to sold-out performances of the opera and just enjoy to my heart's content. Who gives a damn about those people who refuse to let a little light shine into their empty (but hip) lives?



Shooshie

[David Polich]

Wow, great point Shooshie.

I'd further submit that the "general public" does not consist of a large number of musicians. Why expect them to be that discerning?

To most people, music is background, it's not what they focus on. They'd miss it if it wasn't there, but it's not their livelihood. Whoever happens to be on the charts or on television is - well, whoever happens to be there at the time. It's no more and no less significant than that.

And yet, as anyone who has ever put a band's set list together knows, people aren't that insensitive to music. A poorly sequenced set list can kill a performance. And people instinctively respond to a good groove, and "sense" when the groove isn't cookin'.

I've observed that whenever a band starts playing, the audience's expectations immediately adjust depending on the skill level of the musicians and the composition of the music.

If you think the percentage of people who appreciate "high-brow" or challenging music has dwindled, you should have attended the last performance by the band Sigur Ros at the Hollywood Bowl here in L.A. That was sold out, and Sigur Ros isn't what you'd call a radio-ready MTV-style band.

I think it's more the responsibility of the musicians to come up with better music. The world needs more Connor Obersts and Dresden Dolls, and fewer Good Charlottes and Sum 41's.

[monkey man]

Most artists today shoot for mediocrity, and they damn well achieve it in many cases.

..gullible hipster-ignoramuses-in-training who digest it and repeat the lie.

I like this, too.
The key for me is in repeating the lie.

as a percentage of music listeners, classical music, jazz, and anything else worth calling "educated" has dwindled to a tiny percentage of the total.

Hardly surprising as we're more asleep than ever, near as I can tell.
A sorry state of affairs, indeed.
On the upside, the more the masses slumber, the more awake one can feel.

R-R-R-I-I-N-G, R-R-R-I-I-N-G....
That'd be the alarm.
Time to go to sleep.
'Night
MM

[billf]

Hardly surprising as we're more asleep than ever, near as I can tell.
A sorry state of affairs, indeed.
On the upside, the more the masses slumber, the more awake one can feel.

Wow, MonkeyMan that is a great quote.

[chrispick]

It's not just the artist's fault. The public is uneducated in quality, and that's likely due to various social, economic and political factors. When the sum total of one's exposure to music consists of the likes of those bands at the top of the charts today, we have nations populated and economies driven by uneducated consumers. And that's the way the fat cats want it: An educated consumer is less likely to buy the crap the smart fat cats are selling. Add to that the hipster ignoramuses who label music that required some education, study or discipline as "pretentious," "without feeling" and "self-indulgent," and the gullible hipster-ignoramuses-in-training who digest it and repeat the lie.

I guess I'm one of those hipster ignoramuses.

I personally don't think the requirements of "some education, study or discipline" need factor in. At all.

I like Dave Brubeck as much as I like the Ramones.

I like Steely Dan as much as I like Public Enemy.

I like Tom Waits as much as I like Duke Ellington as much as I like Antonin Dvorak as much as I like Elliot Smith.

[Shooshie]

But you see, you LIKE Brubeck, Steely Dan, Ellington, and Dvorak. There's actually hope for you. There are some who wouldn't be caught dead listening to something that might be associated with erudition.


Shooshie

[chrispick]

There's actually hope for you.

And if you like The Ramones and P.E., there might be hope for you. Or at least a cool t-shirt.

There are some who wouldn't be caught dead listening to something that might be associated with erudition.

And visa versa. Which is too bad, I think.

And that's my point.

Just because I strive to understand and appreciate sonic and compositional complexity doesn't mean I've crossed some aesthetic threshold which prevents me from enjoying more prosaic, populist music. A more complicated equation doesn't always translate into a more eloquent or affecting one.

Or, in other words, I think "That song is hard to play and thus it's awesome" is as useless and defeating a statement applied to life-long musical pursuits as "That song is easy to play and thus it sucks."

And, to those statements, of course, visa versa.

[twistedtom]

Last week I had a client who was a good piano player, he wanted to play to a click track and have I put a drum part on to it afterwards. When the drum part was played next to his track you could hear he was off in places. Thanks to digital magic things worked. He is a fine musician and has a degree in music but he is not used to recording.
I concur with crispick; I also like a lot of different music. I like every thing from classical and jazz to punk and nu metal. Much of the music out there is very good; you need to decide what you like. I have my taste but I try not to put down what other people like. Even if I feel it may not be what I want to listen to. (The word is ••œtry••

[Jim]

I do have to admit that I'm an ignoramus on many topics.

Visual art is one of them. And like musical ignoramuses, I'm able to either enjoy art or not without any kind of education. I don't think the fact that I can't paint a straight line myself has any bearing on my enjoyment. Any additional education about the history or biography of the artist doesn't affect my appreciation or lack thereof. However, that's not typical of the art patron who buys paintings. Art patrons seem to be affected by media, "experts" and other external entities who put a value on art works. I'm certain that without his media sycophants, Andy Warhol would just have been another undistinguished mediocre graphic artist. There's an incestuous symbiotic relationship at play. In art and music.

Music is a business, and we are all consumers. Music is marketed to us by crafty ad professionals. We buy music the way we buy other things we don't need, like Coca-Cola, Nike, and ring-tones. Without the TV telling us what is hip, most of us would be totally at a loss, because we are too lazy or we don't know how to seek out that which satisfies us. Music is like fashion. We use music the way we choose our wardrobe. Who we profess to enjoy (and whose works we consume) becomes part of our image. We copy our hero's attire, mannerisms, attitudes, body enhancements, because we have little personality or creativity of our own. What began as non-conformity has now become the norm. I don't think I've met a dozen women in their twenties in the last ten years who don't talk like a Valley Girl, with the upward questioning inflection at the end of every statement. And I live in Texas.

[monkey man]

Dang. Gold, gold and, somehow, yet even more gold.
I'm takin' up prospectin'. Startin' right here.

Just because I strive to understand and appreciate sonic and compositional complexity doesn't mean I've crossed some aesthetic threshold which prevents me from enjoying more prosaic, populist music. A more complicated equation doesn't always translate into a more eloquent or affecting one.

So... you're Shooshie's twin brother, right?
Where have you been hiding your masterful English-construction skills, C?
Audio engineer? Bah. English construction engineer, maybe.

No wonder you can mix; it seems we have... another "patterns" guy.
Man, writing like that makes me weak in the knees.
The monkey's got way too much to learn; he's just a punk.

Way to go, C.
MM

[chrispick]

Dang. Gold, gold and, somehow, yet even more gold.
I'm takin' up prospectin'. Startin' right here.

Just because I strive to understand and appreciate sonic and compositional complexity doesn't mean I've crossed some aesthetic threshold which prevents me from enjoying more prosaic, populist music. A more complicated equation doesn't always translate into a more eloquent or affecting one.

So... you're Shooshie's twin brother, right?
Where have you been hiding your masterful English-construction skills, C?
Audio engineer? Bah. English construction engineer, maybe.

No wonder you can mix; it seems we have... another "patterns" guy.
Man, writing like that makes me weak in the knees.
The monkey's got way too much to learn; he's just a punk.

Way to go, C.
MM

Well, I still have a lot to learn about mixing, arranging and music in general.

And I strive to remain "just a punk" in a lot of way.

I'm am pretty well-trained in English composition, though (my undergrad degree). I'm actually kind of passionate about writing. It's my other personal artistic endeavor, and a form of communication I strive to maintain, despite my penchant for typos.

Anyway, thanks for the friendly sentiment.