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Digital Performer Systems/Bug Database

For seeking technical help with Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on MacOS.

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This forum is for seeking solutions to technical problems involving Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on MacOS, as well as feature requests, criticisms, comparison to other DAWs.

Digital Performer Systems/Bug Database

Postby Shooshie » Wed May 31, 2006 6:44 pm

I promised you that I would have this posted by the end of the month. The end of the month is here, but I don't feel like the database is anywhere near finished. Nevertheless, finishing it beyond this point would involve much more effort than I can expend, and I would be harrassing everyone here incessantly, so let's call it a day, and I'll post what I've got. You'll need Microsoft Excel to run this, but there's a PDF (see below).

THE SPREADSHEET
Digital Performer Systems Database (MS Excel, 200K)

First of all... resize the window to fit your screen! I figure we all have pretty big monitors, but I made it on a 23" Cinema Display. I made it smaller before I saved it, but you'll have to do the final adjustment.

The spreadsheet is garish in color. This was helpful for navigating while entering data. There was very little consistency in data. Many people chose their own way of providing data, so it was impossible to use a macro to enter it. I had to make judgements about many of the entries, so it was just a slow, manual grind to put it all in the database. Often I had to write people for more info, or go searching through their general UnicorNation posts in hopes of finding clues. The colors helped me quickly find a section and locate the cells I needed to enter specific info.

The fonts were nice at one time, but for public distribution, I chose Helvetica, which everyone has. Nothing looks worse than an Excel spreadsheet designed for a particular set of fonts that you don't have.

The instructions are at the top of the spreadsheet in row 2. Basically, you click in a row below row 15, and the database activates. You can then sort the data by specific data points. Be careful interpreting the data. Serious problems are rated from 7 to 10. Below a 7 should be considered less of a bug than an occasional and random anomaly for statistical purposes. Yes, there are lots of degrees of shading, but if you're drawing statistical conclusions, the serious correlations don't begin until the problems reach a fairly high ranking. Keep that in mind as you sort by various data points and look for patterns in the other data.

Also, bear in mind that there are sometimes more factors at work than a single data point. For example: some people report no stuck notes, yet they use MIDI Driver version 1.3.2--the bad one. In most of those cases, you'll find the reason for that is one of the following:

1) they don't do MIDI
2) they use another brand of MIDI interface, and thus the MOTU driver does not pertain to them.

So, again, don't jump to conclusions until you look at the rest of the data.

So, I present you with a database. I hope it helps you figure out what you're looking for. If anyone wants to add their data or change it, do it directly in your copy of the database and mail it to me. (address is in the database) Then I can just copy and paste your entire row into my master file.

Excel is a powerful spreadsheet application, but it's not easy to use, and totally non-intuitive. Like DP, it helps to have the manuals. If you have problems using Excel, please refer to the manuals. I cannot do tech support on this. I'm sure that other people could have made this better, easier, and certainly more complete, but this is the best I can do at this time.


THE PDF
The Digital Performer Systems Database in PDF Format 0 140K (download it; it's usless in Safari)

If you don't have Excel, this PDF may help, but it is very hard to use. The PDF is organized by columns. Each page represents the next several columns as you move across the spreadsheet from left to right. For instance, page 1 displays columns A through J. Page 2 displays K through U. The same rows appear on every page, so if you are looking at someone's data in, say, row 22, then you'd follow row 22 across every page. Unfortunately, the PDF did not print the gridlines, so you'll have to use a ruler across your screen or just eyeball it very carefully. (Preview does let you select rows, which helps a little) If you have a particular problem, this PDF may help assuage your curiosity, but I doubt that you will be able to use it for any serious exploration of the data.

Thank you everyone for participating. Like the Tips Sheet, this couldn't be done without your help, so everyone who participated needs to take a bow and accept my gratitude for your contributions. Have fun using it.

Shooshie
Last edited by Shooshie on Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
|l| OS X 10.9.5 Beta |l| DP 8.07 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro 2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Nomad Factory Vintage Plugins |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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Postby Shooshie » Wed May 31, 2006 6:56 pm

So far, the strongest correlation I've found is between stuck notes and MIDI Driver version 1.3.2. If you have that driver you can download my version of 1.3.1, if it will run on your machine (I think it will run on all the pre-Intel Macs, possibly excepting the dual-core and quad-core towers. I'm not sure about those. It may run on those, too.

MOTU USB MIDI Driver version 1.3.1.sit

I can't guarantee this driver will fix your stuck notes, but the vast majority of people using this version report no problems with notes sticking. If you are not sure what version of the MOTU MIDI Driver you have, check it Here;

HD/System/Library/Extensions/MOTU...
If you just type MOTU once you're in the Extensions folder, you will see the first of the MOTU drivers. The file in question is:

Motu MIDI Driver.kext

I think we will find many other correlations over time as people look things up in the database. At this point we don't know what to look for. The data is maddeningly incomplete, but it will have to do. If we get a strong correlation on something else, we can ask people to fill in missing data.

Shooshie
Last edited by Shooshie on Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
|l| OS X 10.9.5 Beta |l| DP 8.07 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro 2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Nomad Factory Vintage Plugins |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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Postby Shooshie » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:27 am

Posted late... bumping upward so the morning crowd won't miss it.

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|l| OS X 10.9.5 Beta |l| DP 8.07 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro 2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Nomad Factory Vintage Plugins |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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Postby philbrown » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:33 am

[your deity here] BLESS YOU SHOOSHIE
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Postby iMAS » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:04 am

Perhaps this should be stickied ?
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Postby Shooshie » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:20 pm

Last bump. If anyone wants it, they know where to find it.


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|l| OS X 10.9.5 Beta |l| DP 8.07 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro 2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Nomad Factory Vintage Plugins |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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Postby muzishun » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:12 am

Thanks for all your work on this, Shooshie.
Mike

DP 6.02 - OS 10.5.6, MacPro 2.26 Dual Quad - 12 Gb RAM // DP 5.11 - OS 10.4.11 , G5 dual 2G PPC // 4.5 GB RAM // 2408 mkIII and 2408 //assorted plugs and VIs//Radikal SAC 2.2//
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Postby billf » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:26 pm

Shooshie,

You deserve something free from MOTU for this excellent work. 8)
MacPro5,1 2.66, 10.8.5, Digital Performer 8.06
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Postby Frodo » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:14 pm

Good going as always, Shooshie. Thanks!
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Postby Shooshie » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:25 pm

Thanks, Bill and everyone else, but I don't think MOTU owes me anything. While I did indeed want to help everyone get to the bottom of things like stuck notes, I also did it for my own purposes, which just happened to coincide with everyone else's needs at the moment; I had to know that I could continue to deliver trouble-free performances in live settings. In concert, there is no one else to blame; it has to work. Sometimes it just takes a bit of non-billable effort to get there. When DP works for some people but not others--and neither group can tell you why--there is a reason for it, and it just takes getting dirty to find that reason. I found at least one of the answers I was looking for, and I think there are others, too.

I wish that MOTU would publish a chart listing specific Macs that they can guarantee run DP problem-free. I don't know if our database will help them at all. It might if they would take it over and continue to add to it with a user questionnaire, otherwise it will soon be out of date, but I think MOTU does about the best job one could expect from a small company competing with deep pockets like Apple and Digidesign. And I certainly don't expect anything for trying to help get to the bottom of these bugs. I already got what I wanted; peace of mind.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.9.5 Beta |l| DP 8.07 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro 2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Nomad Factory Vintage Plugins |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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Postby Frodo » Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:12 pm

Shooshie wrote:I wish that MOTU would publish a chart listing specific Macs that they can guarantee run DP problem-free.


I don't think MOTU would ever want to "guarantee" such a thing because things are constantly in a state of flux. But, it would be nice (as UAD has done) to list hardware and software combos that have proven to be the most stable. The thing about DP is that the users (here) often report to each other before MOTU could probably get around to it.

It would be great, however, to have some details of the systems they use to test DP-- how they've optimized the OS, etc. Granted, it's not likely that they are using what their customers are using, namely tons of third-party plugs and wrappers, etc., but it would be very helpful to have that information from them.

Shooshie wrote: I don't know if our database will help them at all. It might if they would take it over and continue to add to it with a user questionnaire, otherwise it will soon be out of date,


As stated earlier-- things are constantly in a state of flux. Just consider the short span of time 5.0 was replaced by 5.01. Can you imagine what they go through troubleshooting released versions, scrambling to write maintenance updates for them, while all the time brainstorming on the what DP6 might entail? That's not to mention what's at stake with the transition to the Intel Macs. But if MOTU knows that it does have dedicated users who care, perhaps it will help...

I certainly hope it does-- and I really hope they take such efforts as yours seriously from serious users who continue to support them.
Shooshie wrote:...but I think MOTU does about the best job one could expect from a small company competing with deep pockets like Apple and Digidesign. And I certainly don't expect anything for trying to help get to the bottom of these bugs. I already got what I wanted; peace of mind.

Shooshie


Amen.
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Postby Shooshie » Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:56 pm

Frodo wrote:I don't think MOTU would ever want to "guarantee" such a thing because things are constantly in a state of flux.


I respectfully disagree, but only by degree. I do understand what you mean. It's been my experience, though, that since the early days of Performer I could guarantee a successful concert without any kind of failure, though it sometimes took a lot of work to do that. It's always been about matching the right drivers, application version, OS, and extensions. By carefully tuning the system folder--especially the extensions--you could make Performer and Digital Performer work 100% of the time in concert. Note: "in concert" means "playback only" and that's playback of work that's been prepared and rehearsed dozens of times. If you don't change anything, it won't fail. Sure, the power could go out, or the Mac could just choose that moment to die, but not if you keep it up to date. You don't go into concert with a brand new Mac or an aging one.

Since OS X, it has seemed that this task is just too overwhelming, and it is much more intimidating than before, but I'm learning it works the same way. Eliminate those things that destabilize the system, and you get a working system. So, I think MOTU could test certain Macs with a certain minimum configuration and say "if you don't add anything to this, we are 99.9999% sure that it will work all the time." They might also publish a list of tasks that are unstable: custom consoles, for instance, and various other things which for some people will generate a crash--things to be approached with caution and avoided when on the client's clock.

By staying within certain limits, which include keeping your computer free of all other software except that which you need to do your job (and post at UnicorNation about it ;)), you can be pretty sure that your system will always work.

At least until the next version comes out and we start over.

Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.9.5 Beta |l| DP 8.07 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro 2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Nomad Factory Vintage Plugins |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
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