Mac mini as External MIDI Instrument?

bsantoro · Post by **bsantoro** » Mon May 15, 2006 7:39 pm

When MSI stand-alone runs universal on an Intel Mac mini (G4 inventories are drying up), could it be used as an external MIDI instrument while using DP on another machine?

What would really be cool would be if MOTU could make it work like a plug-in: settings and patches saved with the Digital Performer file, a window opens in Digital Performer to control the plug-in, etc. MOTU would have to create some kind of communication protocol (through FireWire? Other than mLAN) that would transfer MIDI, digital audio and other parameters between Macs, and between DP and MSI stand-alone applications. This new protocol would allow for real-time mixdowns (bounce to disk) over FireWire between the two machines.

Mac minis are relatively inexpensive, and can be stacked for even more simultaneous MIDI instruments (MacFive, MX4,etc.). Hard disk space can be expanded with stacked drives, ports, etc. (like the miniStack from Newertechnology).

Has this topic been covered already? Does anyone else share this vision? Would it be technically impossible (latency, etc.)

papageno · Post by **papageno** » Tue May 16, 2006 6:46 am

Answer to first question is YES. Of course mini can be used as MSI host. To send MIDI from another computer is very easy through builtin network MIDI driver. Latency close to zero.
Another thing is to get audio back to host computer.

1) there is already a system that allows one to run plugins on another coputer. maybe someone remembers the name. i have been on their website and as i remember, it was restricted to VST plugins at that time

2) there is a freeware system netJack to transfer audio signal over TCP/IP protocol (note that TCP/IP can run on ethernet cable AND/OR firewire)

bsantoro · Post by **bsantoro** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:15 am

Thanks for the feedback.

It sounds a little complicated; and not a complete solution, yet. The built-in network MIDI driver; is that implemented with the 'Network' icon I see in Audio/MIDI Setup? Does it apply only to an etherNet network (wired or with Airport)? Or can FireWire now be used to carry the etherNet protocol? I thought I read somewhere that that is possible.

How are networked MIDI devices seen in Audio/MIDI Setup? Is it automatic detection?

As far as audio getting back to the host computer, how about using the digital audio-out of the mini, to the digital audio-in, on my Powerbook? Would DP see and use the digital audio input connection?

It seems to me that MOTU would have a real advantage in the marketplace to integrate the use of its own plug-in instruments with DP over FireWire, running on another computer. I envision a stack of minis hosting a number of independent MIDI instruments.

papageno · Post by **papageno** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:07 am

bsantoro wrote:1) The built-in network MIDI driver; is that implemented with the 'Network' icon I see in Audio/MIDI Setup?
2) Does it apply only to an etherNet network (wired or with Airport)?
3) Or can FireWire now be used to carry the etherNet protocol?
4) How are networked MIDI devices seen in Audio/MIDI Setup? Is it automatic detection?
5) As far as audio getting back to the host computer, how about using the digital audio-out of the mini, to the digital audio-in, on my Powerbook?
6) Would DP see and use the digital audio input connection?
7) I envision a stack of minis hosting a number of independent MIDI instruments.

1) Yes
2) MIDI can be transported over ethernet cable, or over airport (I haven't tried airport BUT it is pretty clear that wireless network is not a good idea to transport timing-sensitive information). Stick to the good old cable.
3) Do not mix terms here. Ethernet is a PHYSICAL cabling, such as Firewire. The transport portocols such as TCP/IP and UDP can be used over Ethernet or Firewire cable. All this has been built in OS X for quite some time.
4) Read the Mac Help, that is the best way. The setup is not difficult. I started from scratch and with Mac Help I got stuff runing in a few minutes. I have also used MidiOverLan between Mac and PC but MusicLab is a company with lousy attitude.
5) Seems ok solution.
6) If this input is recognized in System level (core audio compatible) then Yes.
7) I have used the concept. The only difference was that the cheap playback computer was a PC. I ran MSI and Kontakt 2 successfully. Windows PC is the most cost-effective solution for such a dummy machine. I cannot switch to Widows as a working environment but for a sample player it is quite ok.

bsantoro · Post by **bsantoro** » Tue May 16, 2006 10:08 am

Thanks again for the info. Is TCP/IP faster on FireWire than it is over gigabit ethernet?

My idea of running external MIDI instruments also includes the idea of running the external computer headless; like using Remote Apple Desktop. For instance, MSI gui would show-up on the same computer as running DP, but in its own window. Your computer running DP would take care of display function, mouse and keyboard input for the other computer.

I have Remote Apple Desktop on my computer now, where I monitor the XServer at work. I launched Activity Monitor, and no matter what I did to server applications, it took about 3 to 4 percent CPU usage. Is this too much of a hit to run DP along with an application like Remote Apple Desktop?

Also, your link to netJack shows that it is a PC only hardware/software solution, I think? I am strictly a Macintosh environment. I did a Google search for 'network audio' and came up with some interesting hits.

RMD Music · Post by **RMD Music** » Wed May 17, 2006 7:57 pm

I am having trouble with the MIDI connection with the network MIDI setup.
i keep getting the 192.168.0.106:5004 refused the connection request., as an example,(19:53:19). I've always been able to network my machines together.
What do you think could be the issue? Thanks for your help.

bsantoro · Post by **bsantoro** » Wed May 24, 2006 10:38 am

Interesting solution:

http://news.harmony-central.com/Newp/20 ... Ships.html

http://www.museresearch.com/uniwire.php