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Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:49 pm
by bayswater
HCMarkus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:23 pm
Would you prefer a subscription approach? Not me.
Certainly not. And it's not the cost, but updates for the sake of updates (dammit we paid for it so where is it?) In this case, it looks like MOTU was working on V11 as Apple did their annual update for the sake of an update. Maybe they should have considered issuing a DP 10 compatibility update at the same time as DP 11, although if you're sticking with DP 10 why does it have to be run in OS 11? What's wrong with 10.14?
Maybe I'm out of step with the world here, but it seems to me we should pick the software we want to run, then look for the hardware and OS that runs it -- not buy a computer because it's new and then wonder why the software we want doesn't run on it. There will alway be a few people who are forced to buy a new computer that won't run software that's more than six weeks old but that's life.
Maybe we need more complaints to Apple about why they'd make a computer that abandons existing software?
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:00 pm
by schmargle
HCMarkus wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:23 pm
Would you prefer a subscription approach? Not me.
Yeah, I definitely would not like a subscription approach. And I recognize that updating software for a new OS and chip is a serious undertaking—and developers need to get paid.
Still, I moved up to DP10 exactly one year ago. So, this feels similar to a subscription approach for me.
I'm sure I'll upgrade, probably soon, but I will wish that I had received a bit more oomph for my money.
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:38 pm
by Michael Canavan
profdraper wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:46 pm
BobK wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:18 pm
And I don’t know of other DAWs that required an integer update for Big Sur compatibility.
Totally agree ... *everyone* else provided Big Sur & M1 compatibility as a free update and before and paid versions. DP11 seems to have a good deal of new features, however, ethically MOTU should have provided at least Big Sur support for DP10. Shonky.
Bitwig provided it as an upgrade, Reaper in a point update that you would not receive of you were out of range, Logic hardly counts, and Live still hasn’t done M1 compatbility, Pro Tools via subscription and Cubase is still testing. I’m not sure what DAWs you’re referencing, but it’s obviously a mixed bag, no where near “everyone” more like two out of ten..
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:11 pm
by Prime Mover
MPE requires a total overhaul of the MIDI system. That alone is HUUUUUGE. If you're not using DP for MIDI, that's on you, but for a lot of us, a MIDI overhaul is worth about 2 integer points. For a program that started off MIDI-only, I don't think DP has made any significant changes to the MIDI system since DP5 or so, and it's not like there weren't features to add. I'm still sitting on pins and needles wondering whether they have MIDI Splits, which I think is possibly the most erroneous missing feature in the program's history. The fact that they gave it Articulations assignment gives me hope that there's a whole lot of new features like that under the hood, so we'll see.
This may seem like DP10.5 for some, but this is DP12 for me!
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:21 pm
by stubbsonic
Prime Mover wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:11 pm
This may seem like DP10.5 for some, but this is DP12 for me!
+1
There was enough stuff taken care of in this to make me jump and I've been VERY reluctant to upgrade as a general rule.
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:56 pm
by cuttime
There's now a bunch of control surface videos on YT:
https://www.youtube.com/c/motuTV/videos
Waiting for more now that their video guy dusted off the BetaCam.
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:03 pm
by mhschmieder
Like I said, I just finished re-architecting a code base for moving towards MPE and MIDI 2.0 (and don't even have full versions of that functionality in place yet). As a solo programmer, it took me almost five weeks, and I would estimate this project is at most 25% as complex as DP at its core, and certainly it doesn't have as many additional features or modes that grow out of the core either. My mind boggles at the effort involved for DP 11, but I don't know the size of their team, and I'm new to C++17 after years of mostly C++98 with some C++14 last summer.
On another note, did someone say that DP 11 requires an iLok? I can't abide by that. Hardware dongles are too risky for core products, and tend to cause performance issues, connectivity issues, etc. Once you have multiple devices connected, with or without a hub, macOS bugs can cause a sudden loss of connection through no fault of the device or its own firmware and drivers. Too risky. I can accept it for plug-ins and libraries plus soft synths.
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:10 pm
by cuttime
Look at the Effect Performance window to get a clear picture of what Live Performance mode is doing. VIs that you aren’t using can come on line.
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:14 pm
by dix
mhschmieder wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:03 pmOn another note, did someone say that DP 11 requires an iLok?
No iLok needed. Every other post would be a complaint about it if it were.
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:15 pm
by macnylonguitar
Huge and long time MOTU DP fan of course,
But am I to understand it's $195 Upgrade just to get native M1 / Big Sur support? If so, that is not good at all, and it could be bye to DP for me.
Is there that much new in DP 11?
As a guitar player, as I know many other have discovered recently: HX Stomp...
There is nothing like it on the market at that price point, and essentially has allowed myself and others to sell all my classic amps, and pedals.
My pedal board is an HX Stomp and GFI Specular Tempus (delay and reverb), and that's it. There is not one amp model the HX Stomp cannot do from Fenders, Henricksen cleans to 5150, Mesa Rectifier gains, etc..
For me, this basically puts a total end to guitar amp models in software / plugins. Tried them all, and they are a total waste of money.
Guitar amps, pedals, etc in a DAW, it made little sense even years ago, and with todays dedicated hardware modelers: Stomp, Helix, AxeFX, it's game over...
So, DAW manufacturers to me should pull the band off and just stop wasting time and development on anything related to guitar in the daw..
Better GUI, better scaling, better fonts, themes, audio editing, and console style looking and acting EQ, Compressors, etc...
I tried Logic X a few months ago and still could not do my guitar projects, with AUX mixes, etc, like one can do in DP. In DP it's far more intuitive, and looks far better as well...
I was hoping there would be a 10.2x etc, that would add M1, for free, and then I would just stay on DP...But I don't think that is coming... I don't see $200 worth an upgrade in DP 11, I think the ride could be over. Bite the bullet and Logic Pro time...
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:01 pm
by gzap
macnylonguitar wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:15 pm
Huge and long time MOTU DP fan of course,
But am I to understand it's $195 Upgrade just to get native M1 / Big Sur support? If so, that is not good at all, and it could be bye to DP for me.
Is there that much new in DP 11?
As a guitar player, as I know many other have discovered recently: HX Stomp...
There is nothing like it on the market at that price point, and essentially has allowed myself and others to sell all my classic amps, and pedals.
My pedal board is an HX Stomp and GFI Specular Tempus (delay and reverb), and that's it. There is not one amp model the HX Stomp cannot do from Fenders, Henricksen cleans to 5150, Mesa Rectifier gains, etc..
For me, this basically puts a total end to guitar amp models in software / plugins. Tried them all, and they are a total waste of money.
Guitar amps, pedals, etc in a DAW, it made little sense even years ago, and with todays dedicated hardware modelers: Stomp, Helix, AxeFX, it's game over...
So, DAW manufacturers to me should pull the band off and just stop wasting time and development on anything related to guitar in the daw..
Better GUI, better scaling, better fonts, themes, audio editing, and console style looking and acting EQ, Compressors, etc...
I tried Logic X a few months ago and still could not do my guitar projects, with AUX mixes, etc, like one can do in DP. In DP it's far more intuitive, and looks far better as well...
I was hoping there would be a 10.2x etc, that would add M1, for free, and then I would just stay on DP...But I don't think that is coming... I don't see $200 worth an upgrade in DP 11, I think the ride could be over. Bite the bullet and Logic Pro time...
I'm not sure what HX Stomp has to do with DP11, but hey, who am I to say.
Except I'd go with Neural DSP and Nolly over the Helix line. Though I admit I haven't heard this version, the last one didn't do it for me.
DP's amp models aren't very good, but that's ok, Nolly makes up for it.
I'm more interested in seeing if the MPE will let it work better with MIDI guitars.
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:15 pm
by James Steele
macnylonguitar wrote:…has allowed myself and others to sell all my classic amps, and pedals.
I’m glad you’re happy. As for me, you’ll have to pry my ‘79 JMP head from my cold dead hands. Classic amps will continue to appreciate in value while amp modeler pedals… not so much.
I don't see $200 worth an upgrade in DP 11, I think the ride could be over. Bite the bullet and Logic Pro time...
Good luck with that. You mentioned some things that were worse for workflow and very problematic in Logic. Is saving $195 worth hours of productivity lost?
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:20 pm
by mike_o
dix wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:00 pm
Favorite new unheralded feature: Transpose Excluded tracks. That's been long overdue
What is Transpose Excluded Tracks?
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:26 pm
by stubbsonic
mike_o wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:20 pm
dix wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:00 pm
Favorite new unheralded feature: Transpose Excluded tracks. That's been long overdue
What is Transpose Excluded Tracks?
That means you can exempt drum tracks from transpose. For example, you can select ALL of your tracks to transpose, but not have to de-select the drum, non-pitched percussion or "utility" (triggers/keyswitches, etc) tracks.
Re: DP11 is here!
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:34 pm
by mike_o
stubbsonic wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:26 pm
mike_o wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:20 pm
dix wrote: ↑Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:00 pm
Favorite new unheralded feature: Transpose Excluded tracks. That's been long overdue
What is Transpose Excluded Tracks?
That means you can exempt drum tracks from transpose. For example, you can select ALL of your tracks to transpose, but not have to de-select the drum, non-pitched percussion or "utility" (triggers/keyswitches, etc) tracks.
Gotcha, I can't imagine I would ever need that with the way that I work, but I can see that being crazy useful for some folks.