NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

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Babz
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by Babz »

Brilliant! Virtually my entire wish list, except MPE support! Of course, it remains to be seen how it all works. . I’m ready. When is it available?
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Michael Canavan
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by Michael Canavan »

mhschmieder wrote:What is MPE? Multi-Point Editing? (Not even sure what that would mean)
MIDI Polyphonic Expression. So instead of just polyphonic aftertouch you also get polyphonic pitch, release velocity, velocity, and glide.

It's a lot of fun, but it requires a synth that can address 16 MIDI channels at once for each note you want polyphonically, and it requires the DAW to have true Omni as in addressing all 16 MIDI channels, not any of the 16 down to one. So currently in DP it requires 16 MIDI tracks to set up, compared to Logic with one MIDI track..

I have to say, it's always good to come to the forums to find out what is not included in the upgrade! I get so excited by what is I forget. :lol:

Hopefully the big bullet points people have here get addressed, XML, MPE, better audio export options, ARA support etc. but I would say they had their hands full with all the audio time stretching improvements , if they did it right that's not an easy task, and since they're using a different stretch algorithm than the rest of the pack it's going to be interesting to see how it sounds compared.
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Michael Canavan
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by Michael Canavan »

mike_o wrote:I love this update, I like using clips in ableton but I don't like ableton that much, clips in DP is great to me.

but I am curious about the motu instruments soundbanks listed here...

http://motu.com/products/software/dp/

I'm just wondering what instrument these play in because there are no new VI's listed in the update and I don't thing that these types of multi sampled instruments will play in Model 12 or Nano Sampler.

is there anyone at NAMM who can ask about this directly?
I have the same question. I can only think of two possible reasons not to show the GUI of the instruments. 1. It's ROMpler style, with just the controls you would expect for the instrument shown.
or
2. It's the "Player" part of a larger Sampler, (put out by MOTU, or UVI again, or...) that has not been announced yet.

I mean the obvious surprising but not unprecedented thing would be for MOTU to roll out their own coded version Mach Five 4 in the future here. Spectrasonics for instance went from licensing UVI for sampling to doing their own code.
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Prime Mover
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by Prime Mover »

I would agree that true MPE would be difficult to impliment, however, with a few interface tweaks, they could continue using the current method (multi-tracks) with a lot more ease. I’ve been saying forever that it would be great to see a Combo MIDI track view, even for non-MPE material, like when having multiple tracks for articulations, etc. The wouldn’t have to create a new type of track, but just an interface viewing option, which would be a lot simpler, and have a much wider range of uses.

As for the future, I think we can be sure MPE is here to stay, considering it’s been adopted into all MIDI standards. And the widespread sales of the Seaboard Block have really put it on the map. MOTU has a history of innovation and early adoption, so I disagree that they have to move more cautiously, this behavior is somewhat recent. They’ve never been the big kid on the block, but they were the first to adopt many standards in the past.
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by dix »

but I am curious about the motu instruments soundbanks listed here...

http://motu.com/products/software/dp/
Comes with a whole 5gb library! :) For new users, this will be a big selling point for sure, but my expectations are modest ....who knows though.
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by bayswater »

It may not be everything everyone asked for, but it's pretty responsive to the wish lists here. VST3 too. Now I have to go back and reinstall all those plugins. The scaling could be very useful, especially if you can link scaling to a screenset or a command.
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Michael Canavan
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by Michael Canavan »

Prime Mover wrote:I would agree that true MPE would be difficult to impliment,
I dunno, it seems somewhere between trivial and blood curdling. :lol:

Mostly I think it's one of those "can of worms" things. Open up MIDI to implement MPE, then you might as well also allow a MIDI track to have a specific note range it addresses, a feature missing in DP compared to any other DAW. Then it opens up the question of MIDI tracks, a lot of people are put off by two tracks in the arrangement for a software instrument, should they implement that? This also opens up object oriented MIDI, is this something we should see in the Tracks or Sequence Windows? Music XML gets tied into this. Absolute snap isn't as invasive of a thing to implement so we get that, but I would guess these are the reason why they didn't add MPE more than anything else. In order to make it really enticing they would have to add in a lot more than just MPE, and it wouldn't make sense to open up MIDI to the level to add MPE without addressing the other areas of MIDI people are on about.

I think they obviously concentrated mostly on the audio engine, getting the new stretch markers right etc. and implementing Clips. I'm not unhappy about that, but if I were to be able to tie the MOTU team to their chairs in a room and force the direction of the next upgrade past this one it would be all about MIDI and UX improvements to features it already has.
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bayswater
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by bayswater »

Is MPE more or less what polyphonic aftertouch was meant to do?
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Michael Canavan
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by Michael Canavan »

bayswater wrote:Is MPE more or less what polyphonic aftertouch was meant to do?
It includes polyphonic aftertouch plus poly: pitch, glide, strike and release. that's why marketing dorks were calling it 5D! Five dimensions of polyphonic touch controls! ™ :lol:
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by dix »

bayswater wrote:Is MPE more or less what polyphonic aftertouch was meant to do?
Well, that and front-back and lateral tracking. ....polyphonicly presumably. Personally I have my hands full, so to speak, with just MIDI note on/off :)
Last edited by dix on Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by waxman »

If this works as advertised this makes DP the BEST DAW on the Raven. I have dual Ravens and can't wait to get this going. Hopefully, they also hooked up Hide Tracks to Mackie Protocol as EVERYONE else does. That said, This now allows full touch screen everything on the Raven. Anyone at NAMM please ask someone in the booth if they broke out the Automation from RSIM... GREAT JOB MOTU. Also no LEAKS OR FAKE NEWS ON THIS RELEASE... even more amazing! When is it available?
Last edited by waxman on Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Michael Canavan
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by Michael Canavan »

I'm curious if MOTU have made any friends at Novation or AKAI? I would hope they have. Those companies both develop controllers for Ableton Live. Bitwig luckily enough has a few really dedicated home studio developers that have helped them with their controller support, but MOTU probably need to just partner up a bit. At least to get their new Clips Window to have half the functionality that Live and Bitwig have with these controllers. It's part of the experience of using clips to have a nice dedicated 8x8 grid with an additional 8 buttons to fire parts etc.

I know a lot of you aren't as excited about this as I am, but as an Ableton Live user for years, I can tell you one of the frustrating things about working with both is that if you're just trying to work on a part of a song, maybe only a main theme, nothing else is developed yet, Clips rule. It's just a fantastic way to work on traditional verse, chorus, break, end type pop and rock music of all kinds, not just dance music.
So because of that I often start a song in Ableton Live, then really want to add in some things that Live doesn't do that well, and all of a sudden I'm flattening warped audio, saving presets in VSTi's and exporting MIDI clips so I can work out the rest of the song in DP.

This way makes way more sense. Even without controller support, just being able to use clips to start a song is going to save me a lot of stress.
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Michael Canavan
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by Michael Canavan »

waxman wrote:If this works as advertised this makes DP the BEST DAW on the Raven. I have dual Ravens and can't wait to get this going. Hopefully, they also hooked up Hide Tracks to Mackie Protocol as EVERYONE else does. That said, This now allows full touch screen everything on the Raven. Anyone at NAMM please ask someone in the booth if they broke out the Automation from RSIM... GREAT JOB MOTU. Also no LEAKS OR FAKE NEWS ON THIS RELEASE... even more amazing! When i sit available
Oh man, yess on the Hide Tracks! :x

I completely forgot about the Raven with the new scalable GUI!! It's like they listen to you, or Slate cut a deal with them! :shock: You're right, what with the ability to hide faders and totally customize what is visible in the Mixer along with Ravens floating Mixer, we will never really need to go into the full Raven mixer ever, or need some skeleton mixer like they do with Logic etc. :lol:

Bonus feature unlocked! :dance:
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by dix »

Also: Love the new, clean logo for DP10!
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Prime Mover
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Re: NAMM NEWS - DP 10 - It's Here!

Post by Prime Mover »

Michael Canavan wrote:In order to make it really enticing they would have to add in a lot more than just MPE, and it wouldn't make sense to open up MIDI to the level to add MPE without addressing the other areas of MIDI people are on about.
I couldn't have put it better myself. For a while I've felt like they were very behind in their MIDI implementation, and was hoping DP10 would be the overhaul with all kinda of track-specific settings and updates, but alas, once again MIDI takes a back seat. I do feel like MPE is just one specific to a larger issue, one that hasn't been addressed for about 10 years now.
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