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Another factor in intelligibility may have to do with using audio recorded on location vs. dialog replaced in post using ADR - Automated Dialog Replacement, in which actors rerecord in isolated studio environments. The whole point is to get clear dialog separated from surrounding environmental sound. ADR is an expensive and time-consuming proposition, which excludes its deployment in lower budgeted projects.

Because I'm aware of ADR, I can often hear the sound of the booth in many situations, which can be distracting. Iso booths usually have a window, and the slapback can be picked up, even though it's typical to aim the mic's null at the glass.

I can't imagine a director asking actors to mumble in ADR, but I can't rule it out either.

Things like dialects, and other qualities in speech are often complex interactions with culture. Even our reactions (annoyed or otherwise) are cultural. It's fun to make theories as to why these things happen. Imagine having to resist speaking in your natural higher vocal range because your culture would take you less seriously. We can observe, and observe our reaction, but not much we can do to change it.

Every time I hear someone say "begs the question" when they mean "raises the question", I say to myself, "nice try, smarty-pants."

All of this is why a lot of times now, even if a movie is in English, I turn on the captions if available. It keeps me from doing that whole "What did he say?" exercise where I back up and replay a scene which has a crucial bit of dialog and I can't tell what they hell they're mumbling!

Oh boy does this topic hit home. I agree with James, my wife and I have got to the stage of having subtitles on almost all the time. I have a few thoughts, none of which might be relevant-

-the rise of the ‘sound designers’ in post production, including the overuse of both ‘ambiences’, and over-egged foley.
-the ‘democratisation’ of technology leading to many people mixing movies/TV that have very little craft and technique, (but have lots of gear), and consequently little understanding of what their actual job is.
-at the same time, the rise of home theatres and most likely the desire of filmmakers to create an ‘exciting’ experience.
-the fact that sooooo many things are simply overscored these days. The viewer is treated as someone that needs to be told what to think and feel all the time. I’ve been watching some episodes of Columbo (70s version, not the 80s!) and the music is great. On point, well spotted, and meaningful where used. There’s no way it would be as sparsely scored these days, you’ll get NCIS/CSI music wallpaper that often loses any impact or meaning.

oh, and getting older…

bdr wrote: ↑Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:51 am -the rise of the ‘sound designers’ in post production

There was a thread in a post production forum on LinkedIn, in which a cocky punk claimed that "professional editors" send their audio to a "sound designer" (like him) to mix. This was after he declared that my feature request for side-chaining an audio compressor in Adobe Premiere to make ducking easier than keyframing was irrelevant.

I pointed out that not only have I been professionally post producing content with sound tracks for broadcast and elsewhere for over 40 years without a "sound designer," but that side-chaining is not just common, but almost a de facto standard practice in TV and radio, and that his specious claim was transparently self-serving.

I started my career cutting film and sprocketed mag, and what used to be called "SFX editing," overseen by the Editor (exalted beings, all), evolved into "sound design" with the advent of samplers and DAWs. As soon as the first "sound designer" played an 8-bit sample of a lion at a lower pitch for a monster movie, genius was declared, and a new specialty was born.

I've gotten older, too. But, all that said, I think sound for movies has gotten much better than ever. It's the mumbling as an aesthetic choice I'm not wild about.

Jim wrote:As soon as the first "sound designer" played an 8-bit sample of a lion at a lower pitch for a monster movie, genius was declared, and a new specialty was born.

Hahaha!!! Comedy gold!!!

mhschmieder wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 7:28 pm...it can be tricky to carve out space for dialog properly.

I'd be happy if they just turned the background music/noise down and the vocal up.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

Oh and mhherf bittm flang wot. Just sayin'.

Phil O wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:43 am Oh and mhherf bittm flang wot. Just sayin'.

Easy for you to say!

HCMarkus wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:28 pm It's my birthday soon. I've decided to reverse course. Maybe it will forestall the above, but methinks it is already much too late.

I've heard of a reverse mortgage never birthdays.

Interesting this effects such a large group and its not just me.
I've wondered in the past if I listen to the same Movie in the studio environment if the results would be the same.