DP10 New MIDI controller overdub behavior

[Kurt Cowling]

I just upgraded to DP10 and I'm having some frustration with the new MIDI controller overdub feature. In previous versions of DP I could delete a couple bars from a piano part and then replace them by simply being in overdub mode. Whatever I play gets recorded; what ever I didn't delete remains where it was.

When I try this now I have a problem with the sustain pedal info being erased after I stop playing but before I hit stop on the transport. I've tried latch and touch but it doesn't make any difference. The only thing I can do is to set punch in and punch out points but this creates extra steps and distractions that weren't there previously. Is there a way to get the old behavior back? Can I exempt CC64 from this new behavior? I don't like having data deleted that I didn't decide to delete.

I can see how the new behavior might be useful for some people in some circumstances, but for me it just slows me down and creates extra work.

I have not contacted MOTU tech support on this. I have only contacted them with bugs or hardware issues in the past. Maybe this will be a first, but thought I'd try here because you guys are amazing at helping people.

[dix]

I'm not sure if it will help you (now, 7 months later!), but I just learned in today's MOTU webinar that MIDI track's Automation Mode now (as of DP10) affects recording controller input behavior, even when Automation Record is not enabled. It sounds like you've tried different modes, but Touch Mode seems to do what you're asking for on my system.

Btw, I believe they're going to cover this behavior in depth in tomorrow's (08/14) webinar.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Make sure your OVERDUB isn't toggled to off.

[dix]

Overdub has been toggled ON since 2004 here....but CC input behavior changed in DP10. It's described in the DP10 What's New doc. If only I'd read that doc before now!

[Kurt Cowling]

Make sure your OVERDUB isn't toggled to off.

That’s exactly the issue. Even with overdub toggled ON, the recording of CC data is handled as if overdub is toggled OFF once that particular CC is received on input. If CC data exists in the track but no new data comes in to replace it - the data remains. If CC data exists in the track and a single CC message for that controller is received during recording - all of that CCs data will be erased from that point until hitting stop on the transport.

[Kurt Cowling]

I’m thinking about this a little more...

I’ve been doing a lot of recording with a breath controller over last week and the new behavior works out okay for me in that circumstance. The problem is this: this behavior is based the idea that CC data is essentially automation but for MIDI. But I feel that CC64 is not automation. It’s more like note data in a sense that it’s part of the performance and therefore should overdub the same way note data does.

Hope that makes sense.

[HCMarkus]

t’s more like note data in a sense that it’s part of the performance and therefore should overdub the same way note data does.

Hope that makes sense.

It does, but this is one of those "sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't" situations. BC and CC11 are definitely a performance thing, but CC7 and 10... not so much.

[dix]

But as I learned in yesterday's webinar, All CC data is treated as automation on input since DP10. Even with automation not in Play on the track, MIDI CC performances playback as always.

This new approach might be a little clunky, but, I believe, all the old CC input behavior is still available. They've just added additional CC-input modes in DP10...albeit, in a somewhat unintuitive way.

[Kurt Cowling]

I think the new behavior would be perfect for me if it could just do one thing (or rather, not do one thing).

DP is smart enough to leave CC data in place unless it starts to receive new data to replace it at that time location. I just wish it was also smart enough to recognize when the new stream of data stops. My perfect world would be that any data in place between the last new data and the point at which the transport is stopped would remain instead of being deleted.

[dix]

To confirm, you've tried Touch Mode, right? That seems to do exactly what you're describing for me. ...if I punch in a sustain pedal CC64 on/off while in Overdub/Touch-Mode, DP retains the subsequent pedal on/offs even while DP remains in Record.

[Kurt Cowling]

I’ll try it again, but when I first posted this topic (7 months ago) I had tried those modes and nothing seemed to work the way I wanted.

[Kurt Cowling]

To confirm, you've tried Touch Mode, right? That seems to do exactly what you're describing for me. ...if I punch in a sustain pedal CC64 on/off while in Overdub/Touch-Mode, DP retains the subsequent pedal on/offs even while DP remains in Record.

Hey Dix, thanks much for pushing me to try this again! So, I did try touch mode back when I first posted this and it didn't seem to be working for me. I've tried it again and discovered that it does work after changing the automation preferences.

The problem was that the "Auto punch out delay" defaults to 1000ms (1 second) which is waaaay to long for my purposes. So long, in fact, that I had always stopped the transport before the 1 second had elapsed and therefore never saw the desired result (data being left in place). Any CC data within 1 second of the last new data was still getting deleted (which in my case was all of it). I've reset the "Auto punch out delay" to 20ms and now it works great (better than the pre-DP10 behavior)! I've yet to try this on an actual project but I believe this is the answer I was looking for. Thanks again!

--Kurt

[dix]

You bet! This was driving me crazy too. I found your unanswered OP recently when trying to figure out if this was a bug or new behavior. I assumed the latter until I heard Matt mention in the webinar that track automation mode now also applied to MIDI CC behavior. Of course it's described in the What's New documentation, but who reads anything anymore?!

1 second does seem like a very long time for automation auto punch-out. Especially for MIDI CC performances. Since I almost exclusively use Latch mode for audio track automation I never noticed. A grudging look at the manual tells me that pref is probably about smooth automation ramps in audio tracks. A separate pref for MIDI automation, or at least excluding CC64 from the pref, would be ideal.

Take care

[Arceo]

Hi!
I'm late to the party, but I thank you all for addressing this little issue. I'm coming from the "past" (I've been stuck with DP 7.24 for the past ten years) and I'm trying to adapt to the "future" (DP 11.3). The road to the “future” is amazing and bright, but sometimes bumpy with all the changes I have to adapt to. This is where this community comes in handy and always helps me get back on my feet.

Again: thank you!!!