Sonoma 14.4 crash/kernel panic/reboot with Kontakt 7

[James Steele]

One thing that changed is M2, M3 are probably using software protection for that security vulnerability that the M1's literally have a hardware protection against, if you recall that article posted here a few days ago.

I need to read it again, because I remember the vulnerability as for as apps that use encryption, and I thought it was the other way round: the M1 and M2 would require a software patch, but the M3 had the ability to flip some sort of register or something that would prevent it? These latest issues with the M series chips are getting difficult to keep up with. I guess that's not surprising with a new architecture. I'm really hoping in another year things settle down and these Apple Silicon system will become as solid as the Intel machines on older versions of MacOS.

[Michael Canavan]

One thing that changed is M2, M3 are probably using software protection for that security vulnerability that the M1's literally have a hardware protection against, if you recall that article posted here a few days ago.

I need to read it again, because I remember the vulnerability as for as apps that use encryption, and I thought it was the other way round: the M1 and M2 would require a software patch, but the M3 had the ability to flip some sort of register or something that would prevent it? These latest issues with the M series chips are getting difficult to keep up with. I guess that's not surprising with a new architecture. I'm really hoping in another year things settle down and these Apple Silicon system will become as solid as the Intel machines on older versions of MacOS.

Yeah I'm not blaming Apple here, this is all on NI, 99% of my software works fantastically, it's just NI. As a customer for over 20 years it's all par for the course, but when it works, Kontakt is great.

[James Steele]

I hear you about NI. Honestly, that really bad version of Kontakt (I believe it was 7.6.0) did a serious number on my system. Not only did it make playback in DP and other DAWs jerky and just impossible, but even AFTER I removed it and downgraded it, for whatever weird reason the damage was done and I could NOT get rid of the problem. I was forced to completely reformat my internal drive and then start with I think it was Monterrey and work my way back up to where I had been with Ventura at the time. It was a NIGHTMARE. Ever since that experience, I have not regained trust in NI and I run a Time Machine backup (and thus create an APFS snapshot file) of my boot drive before I upgrade Kontakt. I simply don't trust them and won't take that chance again!

[Michael Canavan]

Just for documenting sake, I have two monitors hooked up here, a Slate RavenMTi2 27", and a 4k Samsung 32".
Kontakt 7.90 crashes every time with two monitors attached in 14.4.1. This is in both DP11 and Reaper 7. Live, Logic, and Bitwig are doing fine. If I disconnect the 4k Samsung I do not get any crashes with Kontakt. I then opened a copy of the Konplete Kontrol plugin in DP11, and called up Kontakt 7 libraries with no crashes.

My guess considering the Kontakt 7 GUI in Komplete Kontrol is minimal, only exposes the macro controls etc. that there is some funky code in Kontakts GUI that is interacting badly with M2 and M3 chips in stricter Sonoma.

[mikehalloran]

Just for documenting sake, I have two monitors hooked up here, …

Apple definitely has unresolved issues with side monitors. I even made the two mile trip to Cupertino to demonstrate some of them to skeptical engineers who who thought I was nuts — till they duplicated what I saw.

My main display is the 27" Apple Studio and my side monitors are a pair of 27" LG 4Ks. Everything is fine since I upgraded my cables but I can duplicate Michael's findings.

LG also makes the Studio Display and has a nearly identical aftermarket monitor — may be the same but I would have to compare the speakers, microphone and camera to know that.
https://www.amazon.com/LG-Monitor-27MD5 ... ref=sr_1_4

[James Steele]

I even made the two mile trip to Cupertino to demonstrate some of them to skeptical engineers who who thought I was nuts — till they duplicated what I saw.

Oh, man... this is a pet peeve of mine.

Developer denial is REAL! Now trust me... I get it. They probably get way too many reports from people of supposed bugs and it turns out that the user had a bad cable, or something simple that they didn't troubleshoot properly. I'm guilty of it myself. It's embarrassing to admit, but I sent back my first S88 Mk2 refurb because I thought it was having an intermittent issue with one of the encoder knobs. All the symptoms point to that. When I got the replacement unit it worked fine. Problem solved. Until about a couple days later and the replacement had the same issue. Cut to the case, it was a USB cable that was going bad. I had to do the right thing and write to the NI guy and fess up. I would feel too guilty that they might have some tech going over the unit top to bottom and not being able to find "the issue." I wanted to know they could re-sell it to someone else with a clear conscience. The NI guy appreciated it, but still... I felt dumb.

Back to Developer Denial, however. It does exist and I've found that sometimes I have to make often poor quality handheld video with my iPhone documenting every step and illustrating the issue to get a developer to finally say "Oh... okay... that looks like a bug." THANK YOU!!!!! Arghhhh! This is especially true when a bug might only happen with third party hardware of interfaces that a developer does not have available to test first hand.

To be honest with you, the transition to Apple Silicon has been rewarding and painful at the same time. Often it is with great annoyance that I bear down and make videos trying to illustrate an issue to a developer, because I know that there's a possibility that UNLESS I DO IT, the issue will persist. Sometimes you just have to bludgeon a developer with IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE of an issue and it can be exhausting gathering up the info and "proof" needed to do so.

End of rant.

[Michael Canavan]

Like I mentioned, I'm not laying blame on Apple for this one, this is all NI. There's absolutely no good reason that a bug should appear only with Kontakt, only with more than one monitor attached, only with DP and Reaper, only in M2 and 3, and only in Sonoma. More than likely they tied into something that Apple considers a security risk, and the combination of code in Reaper and DP etc. exposes it.

[mikehalloran]

Although I agree that this is NI, MOTU is blaming Apple.

[waterstrum]

Just adding to the stats here...
On my system (M2 Mac Studio) the crash happens with just one monitor connected.

[chrisdm1978]

It’s not just Kontakt, also guitar rig pro 7. Happens with no monitors connected.

[mikehalloran]

Matt gave me the heads-up this morning that MOTU is paying attention to this thread over at NI.

https://community.native-instruments.co ... -update/p2

As you'll see, some of us are adding our 2¢ to the discussion.

Matt also asked me if I use Mission Control. No, I do not.

[hammerman]

Matt gave me the heads-up this morning that MOTU is paying attention to this thread over at NI.

https://community.native-instruments.co ... -update/p2

As you'll see, some of us are adding our 2¢ to the discussion.

Matt also asked me if I use Mission Control. No, I do not.

Thanks Mike. I see there's a 14.5 Public Beta but I have never installed those on my studio machine. Maybe someone is brave enough on another partition? I doubt it will fix our Kontakt woes. Waiting for NI...

[James Steele]

Yeah... nobody wants to go first... hahaha! Don't blame them. It's a major hassle to set up a test partition. I haven't done that. BTW, I'm not even sure if modern Apple Silicon Macs can boot from an external drive or not? If so, I might consider setting up a "guinea pig" drive for these things. I'm really frustrated by some Console 1 issues that affect DP and MOTU maintains it's a Sonoma bug. Every update to MacOS I am hopeful.

[mikehalloran]

…
BTW, I'm not even sure if modern Apple Silicon Macs can boot from an external drive or not?
…

Yes they can after certain Security protocols are modified in the Recovery Partition.

Not everything works, however, including MOTU Audio drivers (MOTU MIDI drivers do—go figure). Certain types of .kxt files will not load when booted from an external and there is no workaround.

The best way to do this is to create a new APFS Volume on your System drive if you have the space and install a macOS. Not only do Volumes share space with your main Volume but, when you are done with it, simply Delete in Disk Utility and it is gone.

[James Steele]

Yeah... call me crazy, but I'm doing it. So annoyed tonight. I think 14.4.1 did it, but before every Steinberg plug I had that was UB2 worked. I think something happened after 14.4. Whatever. So I'm fed up and chancing it.

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