Seeking advice for unreasonably long Firewire cable.

[zappazapper]

I have a 75 foot long 6-to-6-pin Firewire cable.

When I use it with my laptop (HP Elitebook 8760w, with HT-Link E132JMB 2-port Firewire card in ExpressCard slot), it works perfectly with my 896 mk3. (There is no information on this card anywhere I can find on the net, although I know It has a VIA chip, just not sure which one.)

I recently upgraded to a desktop (AORUS z390 Ultra, i9-9900k, 32 GB RAM, blah blah blah). The same cable doesn't work. I've tried two different PCI-E Firewire cards -

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01996W7W4/ref ... l-Pcji97lU
(VIA VT6307)

https://www.startech.com/en-ca/cards-ad ... ex1394a2v2
(Texas Instruments - TSB82AA2)

Strangely enough, when using a normal 15' cable, the card with the Texas Instruments chip doesn't work. The VIA works fine.

Yes, I've tried the legacy Firewire driver. Strangely enough, the legacy driver doesn't work even with a 15' cable.

So, ya, I know I'm pushing the limits here. If it never worked on my laptop, I wouldn't bother asking. But clearly it is possible to use this cable, and the way my space is configured, I really need to find a way to get this working with my new computer (I don't have a studio, I have an apartment. I'm a hobbyist who enjoys recording punk rock bands in my free time, and I just don't have the space to put a drum kit, three amps, a PA system AND a desk with a computer and a monitor all in one room).

Yes, I've tried using repeaters. I bought two DataVideo VP-314s. It says 20m between repeaters but I thought I'd give them a try. Didn't work.

So my questions are:
- just in general, does anybody out there have any experience with using really long firewire cables and have some advice to get this working?
- is there something about the chips in the two PCI-E cards I bought that is just inherently not compatible with what I'm trying to do?
- is there something about the ExpressCard adapter that IS inherently compatible?
- is there a PCI-E card that is known to just work better with MOTU interfaces that I should try?
- is something like THIS...

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/223423430710?_t ... %7Ciid%3A1

...a possible solution?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

FAQ - "Why do you need a 75 foot cable?"
A - Because I do, alright smart-ass? Next question.

[HCMarkus]

A 100' long audio snake could be the answer...

[CharlzS]

Maybe try one of the older format cards that provide line power even though you won't need to connect to the old style 4 pin power connector (the 896 doesn't need it). Tolerances on the older design cards are probably very different if capable of supplying power. I don't have a long cable but I use the low profile version of this card and it works fine: https://smile.amazon.com/StarTech-com-P ... B000WCT5HK

[zappazapper]

A 100' long audio snake could be the answer...

I mean, theoretically, ya. In reality, I have a girlfriend that just barely accepts a small rack with my other interface (896HD) in the living room, only because she gets to use my near fields and sub woofer when she watches movies. Not to mention that a big thick multi-core cable hanging over top of the kitchen cabinets and stopping the doors from closing wouldn't really go over well either. I apologize if that's a stupid, frustrating response, but as a hobbyist I just kind of have to make it work with what I got, and that tiny little cable carrying 24 channels of audio was the miracle that allowed me to make it work, so I'd like to figure out how to get it working again. Thanks for your advice all the same.

[zappazapper]

Maybe try one of the older format cards that provide line power even though you won't need to connect to the old style 4 pin power connector (the 896 doesn't need it). Tolerances on the older design cards are probably very different if capable of supplying power. I don't have a long cable but I use the low profile version of this card and it works fine: https://smile.amazon.com/StarTech-com-P ... B000WCT5HK

That's interesting. Maybe that's why the ExpressCard works, because it's got a 12v jack for an external power supply? Even though I've never used it, like you said, maybe that card just has different tolerances? I'd like to know more about this if you have anything to add.

[zappazapper]

https://smile.amazon.com/StarTech-com-P ... B000WCT5HK

Also, the product page for this card on the StarTech website says:
"The 2b, 1a card features a native (single chip) PCI Express chipset - resulting in faster, more reliable and cost effective performance than expansion cards that utilize a 'bridge' chip."

I think this may have something to do with it.

There is no information out there on my ExpressCard adapter, but the one that does show up on the HT-Link website has a VT6315 chip, which is a native PCI-E chip. Both PCI-E cards I bought for my desktop have PCI chips, which means they must use these bridge chips to make them work with PCI-E slots.

Any thoughts?

[CharlzS]

Try it. If it doesn't work return it. Thoughts are endless . . .

[leigh]

I used to use a setup with FW/Enet adapters: FW < -- > Enet < -- > FW. Worked very well.

I don't recall what the adapters were but Google might help.

**Leigh

[zappazapper]

I used to use a setup with FW/Enet adapters: FW < -- > Enet < -- > FW. Worked very well.

I don't recall what the adapters were but Google might help.

**Leigh

Thanks for the suggestion, but again, the cable that I have does work with another computer, so I'm really just concentrating on reasons why it wouldn't work with my new computer rather than getting into completely different technology. Apart from that, because I have done some research into the whole Firewire to Ethernet thing, is that many of the products that were available during the heyday of Firewire just aren't easy to come by anymore. Forget about finding a 6-pin to Ethernet adapter. 9-pin stuff is out there but its rarity makes it somewhat expensive. There's also Firewire to glass-fibre optical but that whole approach is way out of my budget. Firewire to Ethernet is a better option for me than an analog snake but before I start shelling out for an entirely new approach I'd like to be able to say that I exhausted every possible solution for getting this cable to work. Thanks anyway.

[HCMarkus]

I have done some research into the whole Firewire to Ethernet thing, is that many of the products that were available during the heyday of Firewire just aren't easy to come by anymore.

Yeah, I took a quick look when I noted your initial post... difficult/impossible to find for sure, hence the "snake" suggestion.

[zappazapper]

Try it. If it doesn't work return it. Thoughts are endless . . .

So I bought 2 of those cards you recommended and they don't work. Well, one of them works fine with my 896HD and the standard 15 foot cable. My mk3 still doesn't work with the 75 foot cable. Yes, it works fine with the standard cable.

So anyway, they cost me almost CAD$250 so I'm returning them.

But I did do some more looking into why the ExpressCard adapter I have works. I actually opened it up to see exactly what chip it has in it, and it turns out it's using a JMicron JMB381, which is what this uses:
https://www.startech.com/en-ca/cards-adapters/pex1394a2
...which is the discontinued version of the PEX1394a2v2 that I had originally purchased. The JMB381 is a native PCIE chip (no bridge chip), although at this point I can't say for sure if that makes any difference one way or the other. All I know is that the JMicron chip worked once, and even though JMicron chips are generally considered inferior to TI and even VIA, I don't have any compelling reasons to try anything else.

[zappazapper]

I'm posting an update just in case someone else has a similar issue.

The only conclusion that I can arrive at with this whole experience is that sometimes the complexity of computers means that sometimes things don't work when they should, and even more rarely, sometimes things work when they shouldn't. The 75 foot firewire cable shouldn't have ever worked, but for some reason it did with my laptop. I even bought a Expresscard to PCIE adapter to use in my desktop and it didn't work, so apparently it had nothing to do with the chip in the Expresscard adapter I was using either. It just worked, and I don't know why.

Ultimately I had to get a set of Firewire to Ethernet adapters (https://www.lindy-international.com/CAT ... 917&ci=190), which cost me about $500 on ebay. It works perfectly so long as the Ethernet cable is under 100'. I upgraded my 896HD to a second 896 mk3 Firewire, and along with my three Behringer ADA8200s and my one ADA8000, I have 48 analog inputs across two rooms that are a good 50' or so apart, allowing me to have a "live room" (my laundry room) with the kit and the amps, and a "control room" (my living room) where my computer and near fields are. Also I ran a second Ethernet cable between the two rooms so I can use my laptop to log into the desktop using Remote Desktop (the connection isn't responsive enough if I just use Wi-Fi) for situations where I need to be in the live room during tracking (when I'm playing one of the instruments being recorded, or if I need to exert more control over the session than I can when I'm just some "voice of God" over the headphones).

Despite the cost, I recommend the Lindy adapters for anyone wishing to have a similar setup where at least one of the interfaces needs to be more than 15' feet away. When they arrived, I plugged them in, everything worked perfectly, and that part of the setup is something that I haven't had to think about at all since then. They were worth every penny because instead of spending my time trying to get my equipment to work, I now spend my time recording.