DP 11 / Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Conundrum

[RobTalbert]

I recently bought a used E-mu Proteus 2 to try and replicate a song mix I did 25 years ago. The Proteus is driven by a MIDI track in DP (MIDI Oboe) and the output is mapped to the Proteus set up in a MIDI Device group called "MIDI Oboe." This works, i.e., the oboe part plays when I play the track.

The E-mu Proteus left and right outputs are cabled into the Scarlett 18i20 in the #5 and #6 audio inputs.

I attempted to route the Scarlett 18i20 USB input to a DP stereo track (labeled Proteus Oboe in the photo) and then routed that track to bus 5-6. I say "attempted" because no audio is routed to the stereo audio track. Interestingly, I hear the E-mu Proteus playing through my monitors, so the 18i20 must be routing the audio to the speakers, but I am mystified as to why.

I realize this is probably a Scarlett 18i20 question more than a DP question, but I am hoping some sage engineer here has a clue or an insight. The Focusrite routing and configuration has always confused me.

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MIDI Device Group.jpg (114.81 KiB) Viewed 452 times

[mikehalloran]

I attempted to route the Scarlett 18i20 USB input to a DP stereo track

Just like any MOTU interface, you have to route the USB Output to a DP stereo Input.

When there's no mixer, Analog I/O is the same as USB O/I (or the opposite of USB I/O if that makes more sense). A mixer lets you reassign but the signals still have to be routed to the USB Out for DP to see them. If the monitor has its own Outs then that's why you can hear the signal.

[bayswater]

This is something that would be easier to do using the Bundles window in DP. I never use the Focusrite software for routing — like you I find it obscure.

If you have the Emu plugged into Analog 5-6 on the Scarlett, then you can have an audio track using that as the input, an can give it a meaningful name in Bundles. You won’t hear the Emu unless you either go into record mode, or click the monitor button on the track.

In general, it helps to route all instruments, real or virtual to audio tracks in this manner, with the monitoring on. In the case of VIs it is usually necessary to route first to a bus (also set up and named in Bundles), then use the bus as the input to the audio track.

With that setup, all you have to do it put the audio tracks into record mode and do a pass to get a recording of the instruments when you’re happy with the MIDI and instrument settings.

[HCMarkus]

This is something that would be easier to do using the Bundles window in DP. I never use the Focusrite software for routing — like you I find it obscure.

If you have the Emu plugged into Analog 5-6 on the Scarlett, then you can have an audio track using that as the input, an can give it a meaningful name in Bundles. You won’t hear the Emu unless you either go into record mode, or click the monitor button on the track.

In general, it helps to route all instruments, real or virtual to audio tracks in this manner, with the monitoring on. In the case of VIs it is usually necessary to route first to a bus (also set up and named in Bundles), then use the bus as the input to the audio track.

With that setup, all you have to do it put the audio tracks into record mode and do a pass to get a recording of the instruments when you’re happy with the MIDI and instrument settings.

Good info, but I must note there are times when using the interface's built-in mixer is advantageous. DP Buffer size will impact the latency of audio passing thru DP while the built-in mixer will provide latency-free monitoring regardless.

[bayswater]

Good info, but I must note there are times when using the interface's built-in mixer is advantageous. DP Buffer size will impact the latency of audio passing thru DP while the built-in mixer will provide latency-free monitoring regardless.

Agreed. When I was using MOTU interfaces, I used Cuemix a lot — in fact I got the MOTU units so I could get rid of my hardware mixer. But the Focusrite mixers, at least those for the gen 1 Scarletts don’t seem to do much and they’re difficult to interpret.

[RobTalbert]

I continue to be at sea with this - can't fathom what I am doing wrong or failing to comprehend.

I have the MIDI track channelling to an E-mu Proteus 2 through the MIDI port on a Scarlett 18i20 (v2). The Proteus gets the MIDI signal a produces audio output. The output is cabled from the Proteus main outs to line inputs 5-6 on the 18i20.

I have a stereo audio track in DP11 (audio 5 in the image) with the input set to 18i20 USB 5-6. This track does not hear any signal on USB 5-6, so I can't record or route the audio to a bus. I tried the 18i20 line 3-4 inputs with the same result.

The audio monitor shows signal on 5-6 - I assume this is bus 5-6 but then why can't I route this signal to monitors?

I can do the same exact routing with a mic input on the 18i20, or with 9 channels of ADAT on the 18120, and it all works as expected. I am blind to what I have set wrong or what I am not understanding.

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[bayswater]

The audio monitor shows signal on 5-6 - I assume this is bus 5-6 but then why can't I route this signal to monitors?

More likely it is Audio in 5-6 on the Scarlett than bus 5-6 inside DP. I don’t understand how busses are involved in this. The signal would be
keyboard to MIDI in on the Scarlett
MIDI out on Scarlett to MIDI in on the EMU
Audio out on EMU to Audio in 5-6 on Scarlett
Audio in 5-6 on Scarlett to an audio track in DP.
Audio from this audio track to whatever output you have set for that track. (Presumably the main outs on the Scarlett to your speakers or phones.

With that you should hear the signal if you have Monitor or Record status on (not both) as long as the signal is strong enough.

[RobTalbert]

Exactly. That is what I have set up, unless I am blind or there are lapses in my synapses, both of which are possible.

I think I might just resell the E-mu on eBay and buy the vintage Proteus virtual instruments for Kontakt I saw advertised recently. I have spent all my free time this weekend bashing my head against this wall and now I feel too frustrated to actually do something creative.

[bayswater]

A shame, Rob --this sort of things kills the buzz. A real mystery, but I don't have any more ideas.

There are a few gems on the Proteus 2, that I haven't heard elsewhere. I don't use it that much any more, but it works fine on my setup.

[James Steele]

Yeah... absolutely baffling and frustrating (for you I'm sure!) and the rest of us because it seems like one of these things where if you live closer you'd say "I'll come over and take a look and bring a couple off beers"... and problem solved!

I have what I call my *nostalgia rack* with several old synth modules including a Proteus 1 and Proteus 2. The audio outputs of all my synths are connected to the analog inputs of a MOTU 24Ai, which is in turn connected via AVB over Ethernet cable to my MOTU 828es, which is then connected to my M1 Max Mac Studio via Thunderbolt 2. It works fine, although I do need to monitor synths via the mixer built into the MOTU 828es to avoid latency. Sometimes you can us an Aux track in DP and it works okay, but it seems hit or miss, plus if you have plugs with any latency on your Master Fader, you'll get that latency.

Truly sorry to hear about that. Seems like this should not be this big an issue. Very strange indeed.