MoTU Ultralite Mk5 MIDI Not Recognised at Boot

[joehoodmusic]

I'm tearing my hair out over a MoTU Ultralite Mk5 that's not always passing MIDI through to the OS at boot. I can only fix it by rebooting the interface, reconnecting its USB cable, or changing the loopback setting in CueMix (which resets the USB connection), all of which fix the problem straight away. I'm using them in a pro environment though where they have to boot properly first time with no user input. The problem happens around 1 in 5 startups.

It shows up correctly in Audio MIDI Studio, and audio is working fine, but no MIDI data is being passed to the computer through the MIDI In port on the interface.
Rescanning MIDI devices doesn't work, nor does deleting the configuration. There are no MIDI Drivers to delete, and this is a brand new install of Ventura.
There are no other USB devices plugged in.

I've tried:
- Ventura 13.0.1 and 13.2.1
- Brand new install on an Intel Mac, no MoTU Drivers
- Latest MoTU Drivers (which shouldn't affect MIDI anyway as it's class-compliant)
- All drivers removed
- Downgrading the firmware to the previous two versions. No change.
- Multiple Macs and multiple identical interfaces.


Does anyone else have this issue? MoTU seemed clueless over support chat, but I'll have to call them and insist there's a bug in their firmware, as a cheapo £15 USB-to-MIDI cable works perfectly every time. As both devices are class compliant and not using any drivers other than Apple's, it must be a MoTU problem.

[mikehalloran]

My only suggestion is using a cable that supports USB 2 only. Many cables supporting USB 3.0 and higher are not properly wired for USB 2 (those higher protocols are not backward compatible—it’s the cable that must be properly wired), especially USB-C cables (USB-C is a port, not a protocol). A cable rated for higher speed cannot make a USB 2 connection faster—doesn’t work that way.

You want a cable that supports ”up to 480MBs” and no higher. Fortunately, these are inexpensive and are often listed as printer cables nowadays. When diagnosing, Amazon’s 30 day return is my best friend.

Do not connect through a hub. If you are now, bypass it and connect directly. See if you still have a problem.

[joehoodmusic]

I just had a chat from a helpful chap at MOTU. Confirmed bug which they’re working on. I’ll sleep tonight.

[mikehalloran]

I just had a chat from a helpful chap at MOTU. Confirmed bug which they’re working on. I’ll sleep tonight.

Thanks for letting us know.

[LondonMike]

I'm having this exact same problem!
I found that creating a new MIDI set-up in Logic solved it...for a few days but now it's started happening again. The last two days every time I boot up the unit won't transmit MIDI from my Roland keyboard to Logic.

Sometimes even creating a new MIDI setup doesn't help and I have to switch the unit off and on again which is a pain because Logic will then need to reload all virtual instruments etc.

Once it's working it continues to do so without a problem until I shut down.

I haven't tried the loopback fix yet!

I've been on to support they didn't mention they were working on a bug.

[LondonMike]

My only suggestion is using a cable that supports USB 2 only. Many cables supporting USB 3.0 and higher are not properly wired for USB 2 (those higher protocols are not backward compatible—it’s the cable that must be properly wired), especially USB-C cables (USB-C is a port, not a protocol). A cable rated for higher speed cannot make a USB 2 connection faster—doesn’t work that way.

You want a cable that supports ”up to 480MBs” and no higher. Fortunately, these are inexpensive and are often listed as printer cables nowadays. When diagnosing, Amazon’s 30 day return is my best friend.

Do not connect through a hub. If you are now, bypass it and connect directly. See if you still have a problem.

My computer only has TB2 or USB 2 ports (although it says USB 3 bus in the system profile) I used to have a Ultralite Mk 3 connected using FW 400 to TB2 with an adapter and it worked fine!
I'm a bit confused as to which cable I actually need. Would the one supplied with the unit (USB C to USB A) be the culprit?

[mikehalloran]

…
Would the one supplied with the unit (USB C to USB A) be the culprit?

No.

Those that have had issues caused by cabling report that the factory cable works fine.

[LondonMike]

…
Would the one supplied with the unit (USB C to USB A) be the culprit?

No.

Those that have had issues caused by cabling report that the factory cable works fine.

Ok thanks. I guess I'll have to look for a solution elsewhere.

[Karel N]

I've been having the exact same problem.
In my case it goes further, it might stop recognizing MIDI after a random amount of time of being turned on (while not the laptop nor cable nor motu moved a millimeter).
I've even had the same for outputting audio, though it's been a while so I haven't been able to properly troubleshoot that situation.
Anyway, this makes it pretty much unusable in the live environment I needed it for.
I'm looking at the suggestion of using a cheaper USB 2 "up to 480MBs" cable but the thought alone of those quirky cables in the fidgety ports of USB-C and USB-A to USB-C, gives me the heebie jeebies.
The fact that no resolving firmware update has been done after 5 months raises question marks and is making me turn towards an RME product... Unless someone can convince me otherwise.

[mikehalloran]

USB 2 interfaces on the Mac require USB 2 compatible cables. Period—doesn’t matter the brand of interface.

If you suspect a cabling problem (I would, given your symptoms), order a USB Printer Cable from Amazon — these are available with every type of USB connector on each end. Incompatible cables are a huge issue with printers and these support USB 2/1.1 only—that’s why they exist.

Otherwise, there’s a new driver as of June 6, 2023 and a firmware update released in January. Make sure you are up to date.

Driver Supports
MOTU Gen 5 Installer
Mac v93305 | June 6, 2023
macOS 13, macOS 12, macOS 11, macOS 10.15, macOS 10.14

Firmware Supports
UltraLite-mk5 Firmware
1.2.0+2467 | Jan. 17, 2023
For all supported platforms

You have access to MOTU support if your interface is registered.

[joehoodmusic]

Picking this up, having not seen your replies. I’ve been in touch with Motu support, but so far no fix has been implemented. I updated my drivers and firmware on two macs and interfaces, and both are still exhibiting the problem.

Creating a new MIDI device as a potential fix is interesting to me, as I should be able to make a little script that automated that process on boot.

[joehoodmusic]

A thought… are we all using Yamaha keyboards? I wonder whether it’s related to active-sensing at all.