MOTU M6

[bayswater]

No Cuemix. You’d have to route the signal through plugins. I’ve been looking a way to do that. There are apps specfically designed for streaming, podcasting etc that host plugins for inputs, monitors and virtual outputs. Caster from Ginger Audio is one of them. Earlier versions had a limited free version, but apparently the updated versions are not free. I haven’t been able to find a simple free or cheap utility that will simply host a plugin on audio over a real or virtual audio channel. (Lots of free VI host utilities out there though)

[rockitcity]

Thanks Bayswater, that's what I suspected. I used to have a Traveler (1st generation) that did what I wanted except for Cuemix FX. I suppose I could get a MkIII Traveler that has USB, but I hate to spend more money on legacy hardware that may not be supported by a newer operating system in the not too distant future. Maybe a 4 Pre would do? However, it may not have Cuemix FX, just regular Cuemix. Hmm, keep looking...

[mikehalloran]

Thanks Bayswater, that's what I suspected. I used to have a Traveler (1st generation) that did what I wanted except for Cuemix FX. I suppose I could get a MkIII Traveler that has USB, but I hate to spend more money on legacy hardware that may not be supported by a newer operating system in the not too distant future. Maybe a 4 Pre would do? However, it may not have Cuemix FX, just regular Cuemix. Hmm, keep looking...

Anything Class Compliant will work going forward. MOTU has done a pretty good job keeping drivers and CueMix alive.

CueMix has plenty of cool features but, for decades, it's best trick was faking near-zero latency. The CL chipset used in the M2/4/6 does an excellent job of that on its own. MOTU is one of the few mfrs using this chip family to release Mac drivers at all. The drivers lower RTL (round trip latency) about the amount you get by moving your ears 14" closer to your monitor speakers and adds Loopback.

If using CueMix for its other functionality, then you will still want it, of course. The UltraLite MkV is a newer interface that has it. MOTU has been struggling getting the drivers right but they released new ones 6/6/23. Those having issue with the older drivers report that running over Core Audio works fine. You can ask MOTU how CueMix works on these if the drivers are not installed.

[rockitcity]

Thanks for your reply, Mike. So are you saying that with the M6 I could use DP/Logic/Pro Tools in low-latency monitor mode and achieve nearly the same latency as CueMix FX for a live stream feed? What about the Ultralite AVB? It has the inputs I'd most likely need, but I'm guessing I would need to have a router to make the mixing work. Not a problem streaming from home, but I'd need my own router if going elsewhere to make the interface and control surfaces on the same network.

[mikehalloran]

Thanks for your reply, Mike. So are you saying that with the M6 I could use DP/Logic/Pro Tools in low-latency monitor mode and achieve nearly the same latency as CueMix FX for a live stream feed? What about the Ultralite AVB? It has the inputs I'd most likely need, but I'm guessing I would need to have a router to make the mixing work. Not a problem streaming from home, but I'd need my own router if going elsewhere to make the interface and control surfaces on the same network.

I use a different interface with similar specs to the M6 (wasn't available when I purchased). Near Zero RTL is real and mine does not have Mac drivers nor anything resembling Cue Mix—Core Audio/MIDI only.

The Motu M4/6 has an In/Out balance control that lets you hear the RTL from your interface (Out) and your DAW (In). You'll hear the difference on a test click track ( I generate if from my iPhone and hear it back in real time from DP — not something I would do live or in the studio) and can use it to dial in the lowest usable buffer and sample settings. I run DP at a 32 buffer and the test click track is the only way I can hear it. If you set the balance control at 50/50, you'll hear delay distortion on every live track—so never set it there. Otherwise, the chief function is to set the balance between Out/In real time without adjusting anything in the DAW (not enough background/too much me or vise versa? Twist a knob). Really handy in the studio, too. Anyway, this control has me spoiled and I will never buy an interface without it again. But that's me and I am not you.

Screenshot 2023-08-14 at 11.27.49 AM.png (517.3 KiB) Viewed 2265 times

Reading the description, the UltraLite AVB does have a "Fast USB 2" chip set at the core, probably CL like so many others. As for needing a router:

Stand-alone mixing with wireless control
Control everything from your iPad or iPhone
Connect an Apple Airport™ or other Wi-Fi router directly to the UltraLite with a standard Ethernet cable and control the UltraLite AVB's powerful mixing and DSP effects from your smartphone or tablet, without a computer. Great for live sound mixing!

Other than that, here's the Getting Started page
https://motu.com/proaudio/index.html

and the User Guide https://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/avb/ ... _Guide.pdf

[rockitcity]

Good info, thanks again for your time and many useful posts to this forum in general!

[Guitar Gaz]

In the end I plumped for the M4 which I think is great (silly how good it is to have an on/off switch on the interface). But the M6 was a serious consideration. Pleased I went with the Motu interface - the In/Out Balance control is also really useful.

[mikehalloran]

In the end I plumped for the M4 which I think is great (silly how good it is to have an on/off switch on the interface). But the M6 was a serious consideration. Pleased I went with the Motu interface …

Yes on the On/Off switch! Some of my older interfaces do not have this—what were those guys thinking?

- the In/Out Balance control is also really useful.

I've replaced the screenshot I used earlier with one that shows it on the M6 better.

This control can be confusing and has different names depending on what brand your interface is. Input monitors your input channels but it's labelled Out on many since that blend is sent to your computer (showing up as Inputs in DP etc.). On the M4/6 and most others, you can listen Mono or stereo with each channel hard-panned L/R. There is no mixer in an M2/4/6. Playback is Out from your DAW over USB and, technically is an incoming signal. You set whether this signal is mono or stereo in your DAW — the interface has no control over this.

Many MOTU interfaces have built-in mixers. A couple have no mixer but do have CueMix. They do not have this Balance/Blend/Mix knob.

[James Steele]

Yes on the On/Off switch! Some of my older interfaces do not have this—what were those guys thinking?

To add to this, I really like on/off switches that are mechanical!! That is, it's a physical switch that locks into place in either the on/off position and not some membrane button or digital encoder. This way, I can leave the switch in the on position, and then when I flip a switch on my rack-mounted power distribution unit, it comes on! My UAD TB3 Satellite OCTO has this kind of switch and I love it. Same with all my 19" rackmount MOTU gear: 828es, 24Ai, and MIDI Express XT. All of them have a physical switch so that when power is applied to them, they turn on.

[Guitar Gaz]

Yes on the On/Off switch! Some of my older interfaces do not have this—what were those guys thinking?

To add to this, I really like on/off switches that are mechanical!! That is, it's a physical switch that locks into place in either the on/off position and not some membrane button or digital encoder. This way, I can leave the switch in the on position, and then when I flip a switch on my rack-mounted power distribution unit, it comes on! My UAD TB3 Satellite OCTO has this kind of switch and I love it. Same with all my 19" rackmount MOTU gear: 828es, 24Ai, and MIDI Express XT. All of them have a physical switch so that when power is applied to them, they turn on.

And I can turn it on or off when my monitors are on and not get that awful thump/click! Goes without saying the sound is good of course......

[rockitcity]

Not M6 related, but just closing out what I decided to do.

I ended up buying a used 828 MkIII Hybrid. It has FIrewire and USB, plus CueMix FX. Another advantage for me was that it was basically a direct replacement for the 828 MkII, so I didn't have to change much wiring. Hopefully it will be supported for a while longer so when I do get a new computer (Mac Mini M2?) it will still work.

Will still consider an M6 for mobile use with a laptop.

Thanks to all for their comments!

[mikehalloran]

Not M6 related, but just closing out what I decided to do.

I ended up buying a used 828 MkIII Hybrid. It has FIrewire and USB, plus CueMix FX. Another advantage for me was that it was basically a direct replacement for the 828 MkII, so I didn't have to change much wiring. Hopefully it will be supported for a while longer so when I do get a new computer (Mac Mini M2?) it will still work.

Will still consider an M6 for mobile use with a laptop.

Thanks to all for their comments!

The 828 MkIII Hybrid is still being sold new although Sweetwater and others are reporting

Backordered - More On The Way!

This item requires extra delivery time from MOTU. Order today to reserve yours now, risk-free, or contact us for more information.

It will be supported for awhile, no doubt.

[Phil O]

Just for the record, I'm lovin' my M6.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil

[stubbsonic]

Yes, that last post really shed some important light on their personal experiences with M6 with slope (unblocked). I especially like how M6 helps with dynamic range-- which as they described starts at 0 dB (I agree that 0 dB is silence!!) and going all the way up to 120-130 dB, which is also painful for my human ears, too!

It's like the other day when I was trying to have a conversation with my human wife. And she could not hear me because the dynamic range was so high. The funny thing was that I could not hear her mouth words either.

Still, we ping-ponged back and forth, us two human people, (married, for a while), talking from our mouth holes, while that Sabre32 Ultra DAC was making the extreme dynamic range.

I just just used the finger tentacles to make the buttons go. It's a good post.

[Phil O]

Thanks Stubbs. It all makes sense now.