MIDI clock sync issue

[Bluesguy]

My setup is a Tascam DP-32SD multitrack
Yamaha PSR-SX900
Alesis SR18 drum machine

I normally do my backing tracks on the Yamaha and once good record as a stereo backing track to the Tascam and then record live tracks, guitar-vocal-keys as tracks on the Tascam. This normally works fine but if I am into the project and decide I want to change the backing track I get into sync issues because the Tascam has no MIDI function.

So reading up on old school got a Motu Micro Express. Set down a timing track on the Tascam. And then yes the Moto will track to it and send out MIDI timing.

Tried to get to work with the Yamaha and Alesis and no go. Could get the Yamaha and Alesis to start each other either way slave/master but not from the Motu.

Went on tech support and he guessed the problem was the Motu only sends MTC while the Yamaha and Alesis are looking for MIDI clock. Other than sell the Muto and get something else or he said I might try using Digital Performer Lite as a go between. Have the DP slaved to the Motu and the DP send out MIDI clock to the Alesis and Yamaha.

Well I can get the Tascam to start DP with DP set to slave to it. I can get the Alesis and Yamaha to start from DP but only in DP is not slaved to the Tascam. I think the tech guy thought DP could do each at the same time and act as a real time converter of the MCT into a MIDI clock signal but I can't seem to get it to do so.

Does anyone know if this is possible and how to do it or some other solution other than replace the Motu with something else?

Thanks in advance

[James Steele]

I'm just going to wade in here with the caveat that what I might add might be useless... but it will get the ball rolling hopefully.

I'm using DP 11.21, not Digital Performer Lite, just as another caveat.

So do I understand correctly that you striped a track on your tape machine with longitudinal SMPTE time code, and you're routing that audio time code back into the MOTU Micro Express? It seems like DP should be able to send MIDI beat clocks out on a specific port (to your Yamaha and Alesis) while slaved to SMPTE. I don't know where DP Lite (is it Performer Lite?) differ in the menus, but there is a Transmit Sync setting and you can choose what ports this is sent on.

Also of course you slave DP to the incoming sync with the little "Clock" button in the main control panel. When your interface starts receiving SMPTE time code, DP should start. You might want to also go into the Chunks window and check the start time of your chunk so that it corresponds with the SMPTE time code it's receiving. As an aside, a lot of folks like to set a chunk to start on measure 0, then set real time to hit 0:00 right on measure 1. That may not be helpful. You'd also have to have an empty measure in your drum machine song or whatever?

Also, run Clockworks and check you haven't muted any incoming or outgoing messages that may apply.

Anyway... sorry I'm not of more help right now. I don't know if there's maybe a way to adjust your workflow? Are you using a sequencer built in to the PSR-SX900? Perhaps maybe record parts as MIDI into Performer Lite, then lay those parts back onto tracks on your tape machine by having Performer Lite send the MIDI back to your keyboard while synched to the timecode coming from your tape machine? I guess the thing is you're wanting to record to tape. You could, at least with the Alesis, use it more like an external sound module and sequence it to MIDI?

I don't know... sorry... hopefully this will get the discussion going. I haven't really tried syncing DP to SMPTE time code coming from tape in a long time, although I'm really surprised that it can't send MIDI beat clock while slaved to SMPTE. Again, I'd check that chunk start time and be sure that the right hour:min:sec:frame there matches what you striped your tape machine with.

[Bluesguy]

Yes it is Performer Lite which I downloaded when I registered the Micro Express.

Yes the Tascam track is striped and the and feeding the ME and the Performer software slaved to MTC on it. When I hit play on the Tascam it starts the Performer software.

The Yamaha and Alesis are both slave to the Performer software using MIDI clock. If the Performer software is NOT set to external sync, it is master, when I start it it sends MIDI clock to the Yamaha and Alesis and they both start.

It is when I slave the Performer back to the ME that it does not send MIDI clock to the Yamaha and Alesis so I an unable to use it as the "middle-man" so I can start the Tascm and and then Performer sends MIDI clock.

[James Steele]

It is when I slave the Performer back to the ME that it does not send MIDI clock to the Yamaha and Alesis so I an unable to use it as the "middle-man" so I can start the Tascm and and then Performer sends MIDI clock.

So when you start the Tascam, Performer starts playing but it is *not* sending MIDI clock out to the Yamaha and the Alesis? The location of the time code is appropriate for the chunk start time in Performer Lite? When Performer starts up it's not jumping to some crazy measure number but the beginning of the sequence?

Does the MicroExpress have any sort of visual indicator that it is or isn't sending MIDI Beat Clock down an output cable? No chance that MIDI beat clock messages are being muted in ClockWorks?

You might just to be sure download MIDI Monitor...
https://www.snoize.com/midimonitor/

...and see if you can verify that Performer Lite is not sending MIDI Beat Clock messages out the output cable going to the Alesis and the Yamaha. It doesn't seem to make sense that slaving Performer Lite to SMPTE would stop it from sending MIDI Beat Clocks out.

Anyway... wish I had an easy answer. I'm hoping somebody who is using a similar setup can chime in.

[Bluesguy]

Thanks for your response!

And let me add I do not use DAW for recording I prefer using the Tascam in an old school manner. Was hoping to do this all through hardware. Using Performer only as a MTC -> MIDI clock converter. Would prefer not having to go through the computer.

So when you start the Tascam, Performer starts playing but it is *not* sending MIDI clock out to the Yamaha and the Alesis? The location of the time code is appropriate for the chunk start time in Performer Lite? When Performer starts up it's not jumping to some crazy measure number but the beginning of the sequence?

Correct and I will add I have the Alesis connected to port 6 on the ME, manual says 5 and 6 transmit timing code, and through it to the Yamaha.

Does the MicroExpress have any sort of visual indicator that it is or isn't sending MIDI Beat Clock down an output cable? No chance that MIDI beat clock messages are being muted in ClockWorks?

The ME does NOT send MIDI clock. That is the main problem. It only sends MTC. That is why trying to use Performer as the middle man. I wish it did and then I would just have it send directly to the Alesis and Yamaha.
IOW

What I need
Tascam ->smpte to ME. ME -> MTC to Performer. Performer -> MIDI clock ->Alesis/Yamaha

It's getting Performer to do the double duty at the same time that's got me stumped IF it is possible to do so. The tech guy didn't seem to sure about it. When I set Performer to "Slave External" to accept the timing from the ME it no longer send MIDI clock.

[James Steele]

Right. I phrased that incorrectly. I meant that Performer Lite was sending MIDI clock and perhaps the MicroExpress had some indicator to show that? Otherwise maybe use MIDI Monitor to verify PL is sending MIDI clock.

[Bluesguy]

Yes Performer can send MIDI clock and does when it is not set to external slave but using internal clock. It does not seem to be able to slave external to MTC AND send MIDI clock simultaneously at least I cannot find a way to make it do so.

I just ordered a JL Cooper Electronics PPS-2 Synchronizer SMPTE / Smart FSK. I may keep the Micro Express just for routing purposes. I'm a hardware guy so hopefully this will work!

My other option was to sell the Tascam and get their new Model 12 which does utilize MIDI but would be giving up so features and channel strips.

[James Steele]

Rats... that's a bummer. It's just hard to imagine why Performer Lite would NOT send MIDI Clocks when slaved to SMPTE. Weird.