M4, how to get 1/2 and 3/4 output simultaneously?

[AllMyOutputsPls]

I have an M4 attached via USB to my macbook for music production, and my desktop audio through the 3/4 inputs at rear, feeding a pair of active monitors on my desk.

What I would like is to keep using my desktop monitors via 1/2 out and the main knob, and have 3/4 out routed to a separate amp for outdoor speakers

• Both outputs should have the main mix on them
• Output to outdoor amp should be unaffected by the main volume knob
• I take my laptop away from my desk frequently but still want sound from my PC on both desk monitors and the outdoor speakers (this currently works as the M4 is plugged into a hub)

Is this doable with the M4 or should I go looking for another solution?

Code: Select all

  1/2 OUT ◄─────┐      ┌──────► 3/4 OUT
  MONITORS      ├──────┤        OUTDOOR
                │  M4  │        SPEAKERS
             USB└▲────▲┘3/4
              IN │    │ IN
                 │    │
┌──────┐  ┌──────┤   ┌┴─────┐
│LAPTOP├──► HUB  │   │  PC  │
└──────┘  └──────┘   └──────┘

[mikehalloran]

I have an M4 attached via USB to my macbook for music production, and my desktop audio through the 3/4 inputs at rear, feeding a pair of active monitors on my desk.

What I would like is to keep using my desktop monitors via 1/2 out and the main knob, and have 3/4 out routed to a separate amp for outdoor speakers

• Both outputs should have the main mix on them
• Output to outdoor amp should be unaffected by the main volume knob
• I take my laptop away from my desk frequently but still want sound from my PC on both desk monitors and the outdoor speakers (this currently works as the M4 is plugged into a hub)

Is this doable with the M4 or should I go looking for another solution?

Code: Select all

  1/2 OUT ◄─────┐      ┌──────► 3/4 OUT
  MONITORS      ├──────┤        OUTDOOR
                │  M4  │        SPEAKERS
             USB└▲────▲┘3/4
              IN │    │ IN
                 │    │
┌──────┐  ┌──────┤   ┌┴─────┐
│LAPTOP├──► HUB  │   │  PC  │
└──────┘  └──────┘   └──────┘

Here is the new M2/4/6 User Manual.
https://cdn-data.motu.com/manuals/usb-c ... _Guide.pdf

I don't see that you cannot do exactly as you like. Controlling the desktop independently of the outdoor speakers can be done but it is kludgy without the use of a separate Monitor Controller fed by either the 1/2, 3/4, a Mono output or even the Headphone 2 out (many Monitor controllers can be driven by 'phone outs).
https://www.sweetwater.com/c417--Management

The MON button has its own properties:

12. Engage the MON (monitor) button to enable hardware (direct)
monitoring, which routes the channel’s input signal directly to
the MONITOR 1-2 outputs and pans the mono signal evenly
across both outputs. A blue box appears around the input
channel number in the LCD to indicate that hardware monitoring is engage. Press and hold the MON button to engage stereo
monitoring for input pairs. In this mode, Input 1 is routed to
Output 1 and Input 2 is routed to Output 2, allowing you to
monitor in stereo while recording in stereo. Inputs 3-4 are
similarly routed to Outputs 1 and 2 (3 to 1 and 4 to 2).

[AllMyOutputsPls]

Thx for the reply Mike!

without the use of a separate Monitor Controller fed by either the 1/2, 3/4

The outdoor speakers are run through an amp, so there is a volume control there. But I want to have 3/4 OUT provide signal to that amp. I can't figure out how to do that other than something like Blackhole, which is a non-starter because I only have my laptop at my desk some of the time.

My Scarlett 6i6 had software (MixControl) to set up routing on the device itself and it persisted regardless of being connected to a computer. So I could route any inputs (DAW, 1-6) to any outputs (1-6) arbitrarily. I don't need wacky routing either, I just want the main mix that comes out of 1/2 to also be mirrored out of 3/4. Doesn't seem like the M4 can be configured like this, sadly.

[James Steele]

Does the M4 use the MOTU Pro Control software. If so, can this be set up in the routing window? Not familiar with the M4.

[AllMyOutputsPls]

I don't think it uses the pro control software, from what I can tell :/

Thx for the suggestion though!

[mikehalloran]

Thx for the reply Mike!

without the use of a separate Monitor Controller fed by either the 1/2, 3/4

The outdoor speakers are run through an amp, so there is a volume control there. But I want to have 3/4 OUT provide signal to that amp. I can't figure out how to do that other than something like Blackhole, which is a non-starter because I only have my laptop at my desk some of the time.

My Scarlett 6i6 had software (MixControl) to set up routing on the device itself and it persisted regardless of being connected to a computer. So I could route any inputs (DAW, 1-6) to any outputs (1-6) arbitrarily. I don't need wacky routing either, I just want the main mix that comes out of 1/2 to also be mirrored out of 3/4. Doesn't seem like the M4 can be configured like this, sadly.

By putting PC in your diagram, I missed the fact that you’re on a Mac. You appear to be focusing on how you want to do this instead of the task at hand.

You can mirror the Monitor in Outputs 3/4 as long as you don’t want independent control. This is shown on pg 16 but I wouldn’t bother with that.

You also have those RCA jacks that mirror the TRS outputs. An inexpensive stereo transformer box and two cables changes those -10 unbalanced to +4 balanced (I have three made by Morley/Ebtech) so that you can feed two systems from the big Monitor pot. Easy peasy and no switching required. Again, a monitor controller gives you independent controls if needed but it looks like you don’t.

What’s missing in all this is if you’re using a DAW and which one. None is necessary for using with System Audio.

Does the M4 use the MOTU Pro Control software. If so, can this be set up in the routing window? Not familiar with the M4.

No. The MOTU drivers add Loopback to the M2/4/6 and barely lower the RTL. These work great over Core Audio if Loopback isn’t required.

Here is the current version of the boxes I have
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detai ... el-shifter

but mine are an older version that has TRS jacks only and no mirroring XLR — functionality is the same. You would use a pair of RCA to 1.4” TS cables to connect. These can be found in the used market. Here’s one and I know others.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325408109307

These boxes are also great for stepping many keyboards up to the M4’s Line Inputs.

[AllMyOutputsPls]

You also have those RCA jacks that mirror the TRS outputs. An inexpensive stereo transformer box and two cables changes those -10 unbalanced to +4 balanced (I have three made by Morley/Ebtech) so that you can feed two systems from the big Monitor pot.

Yeah, thought about that too, but then the level of the 2 pairs of speakers becomes determined by:

• Monitors: M4 pot
• Outdoor Speakers: M4 pot -> outdoor amp pot

If I want to turn down the monitors by ~25% of the volume but keep the outdoor speakers where they are, I have to adjust 2 pots (M4 down 25%, outdoor amp up 33%). I don't like that.

Which is why I've been focusing on using 3/4 OUT to feed the outdoor speaker amp. My assumption here is that the M4 pot only controls 1/2 and not 3/4 as well. So it turns into:

• Monitors: M4 pot
• Outdoor Speakers: Outdoor amp pot

[mikehalloran]

It can be done — the manual gives you many routing options but how depends on System Audio or DAW and you haven't shared that information.

If System Audio, setting up an Aggregate Device device to route your audio both Monitor and to 3/4 in BlackHole might be the easiest way. After setting it up, the System Preferences/Sound window becomes your friend.

If using a DAW, you will have many options including Loopback (must install the MOTU drivers). What those options are depends on the DAW.

[AllMyOutputsPls]

Yup, but:

I take my laptop away from my desk frequently but still want sound from my PC on both desk monitors and the outdoor speakers

A DAW, Blackhole, or System Audio likely isn't going to help if the macbook is disconnected from the M4, 50' away in a different building

[AllMyOutputsPls]

But I think I've sidestepped this by reviving my old Scarlett 6i6 with a new wall wart. And I have software routing again!

The 6i6 pot controls the monitors. The external speaker amp pot controls the external speakers. The M4 just becomes a dedicated interface for the macbook.

Code: Select all

┌───────┐  ┌──┐
│macbook├──┤m4├─1/2 (or 3/4?)
└───────┘  └──┘ │
                │
       ┌──┐  ┌──▼┐      ┌────────┐
       │PC├──┤6i6├─1/2─►│MONITORS│
       └──┘  └──┬┘      └────────┘
                │
                │       ┌────────┐
                └──3/4─►│EXT SPKR│
                        └────────┘

[mikehalloran]

Had you added that you have that 6i6, I would have suggested it as an alternative.

Whatever works — works.

[AllMyOutputsPls]

The 6i6 was a paperweight up until yesterday, and I was really hoping the M4 would work alone if it supported on-device routing to reduce desk clutter and current drawn. C'est la vie.

[mikehalloran]

The 6i6 was a paperweight up until yesterday, and I was really hoping the M4 would work alone if it supported on-device routing to reduce desk clutter and current drawn. C'est la vie.

And there it is.

You need a mixer for that. MOTU makes other interfaces with internal routing but the M2/4/6 does not have that functionality.

[AllMyOutputsPls]

Yup, just like I said in my initial post. Glad we got there eventually though

* Both outputs should have the main mix on them
* Output to outdoor amp should be unaffected by the main volume knob
* I take my laptop away from my desk frequently but still want sound from my PC on both desk monitors and the outdoor speakers

Is this doable with the M4 or should I go looking for another solution?