Waves plug-ins: Yikes!

[Jim]

I've read here that some of you love Waves products and say they're very good. I bought one of their products a few years ago on the advice of a local pro - a tape emulator. I couldn't tell that did anything to the sound, but it had a spiffy tape reel animation.

My main objection, once upon a time, years back was the iLok. I hated the idea of the iLok, but then I found an East-West VI (Ra) I wanted on a deep discount that included a free iLok. So, I changed my tune, and have since bought several products that required it. Now, it's my preferred copy-protection scheme over other types except for simply entering a serial number.

So, yesterday, I ran across a sale for Waves "first" analog synth VI, Element. I was impressed with the sales video on their site, so I downloaded their licensing app and a demo of the plug-in. The synth sounds incredible. For $29, this seemed like a no-brainer.

But then, I looked deeper into putting it on my second computer, as I switch back and forth from a tracking room and mixing room.

That's when I learned the new Waves scheme is a USB stick or a computer authorization that can be unauthorized and reauthorized when I move back and forth. So now, I would be faced with either moving a USB and my iLok from room to room, or unauthorizing and reauthorizing two computers for each move. Neither of those ideas appealed to me, so I asked myself if this one VI is worth all that trouble, and I decided it isn't. I have several other excellent analog synth VIs already.

So, when I went to uninstall the Waves demo, I found literally HUNDREDS of files on my computer in seven or eight folders after doing a disk search for "waves" and "element."

So finally getting to my question: Does anybody but me think this is too much? Does this process have to be so invasive? Does anybody else think their separate USB drive license is an improvement over iLok? Is the hassle of dealing with that protection scheme worth the benefit of their products?

I get that some VIs and FX plugs use a scheme with one file for every preset, so hundreds of files isn't that onerous since they're small - 20-30 kilobytes each.

For reference, I also use products from Native Instruments, East-West, Garriton / Make Music, AIR, AAS, G-Force, Sonnox, FabFilter, iZotope, Antares, WaveArts, and of course MOTU, and none of those companies present much additional hassle. East-West has in Installation Center app that's similar to the Waves Control, but it's more or less invisible, and I don't need to invoke it unless I need to update or reinstall something.

And to end on a positive, if you're already on board with Waves licensing scheme (which I saw some of you are in other threads), you might check out the Element synth VI while it's on sale.

[CharlzS]

You get two licenses as long as your WUP is current. You could authorize both computers. One year of support (WUP) comes with your initial purchase. You activate the second license in your user account. You need to keep WUP current or the second license goes away.

https://www.waves.com/legal/waves-updat ... conditions

[pencilina]

I think you're totally right. I've used waves for decades as a primary plugin tool set and have a lot of time and money invested in their products. They make some wonderful tools which are very reasonably priced given frequent sales but installing authorizing and upgrading is a nightmarish PITA. I stick it out because of my familiarity w/the plugins but have been REALLY enjoying some newer tools from DMG (track comp) and plug alliance (mostly eqs and channel strips). I've looked at a lot of the newer subscriptions (slate & PA) but still see a lot of gaps in their comparative offerings. Waves has some super duper useful and precise stuff that I use all the time (like F6 or vitamin for example) which would be expensive to replace with alternatives from fabfilter or DMG (which I'm sure are probably better then waves in some ways and worth it). Wave's tech support is actually great as long as you're up to date. Hopefully they'll come up with a better system as the market forces a lot of these companies to adapt and Waves probably will later then sooner. But for me it's the devil I know like...... Digital Performer.

[dewdman42]

I have a few Waves things, but I've about had it with them and numerous things about their licensing scheme. I recently got an email saying I need to spend $250 to get my plugins updated to v14...with no new features other then officially supporting MacOS version 12.4 and higher.

I plan to use what I have until they don't work anymore than move on without Waves. there are lots of other great products on the market now that can do what their stuff does with a lot less hassle, technical wrapper mumbo jumbo..and their ridiculously overpriced subscription model.

Back in the day, Waves plugins were king. But these days with few exceptions there are numerous alternatives. Of course if you have lots of projects already with waves plugins that you might need to remix...well then...they have you where they want you.

[HCMarkus]

I recently got an email saying I need to spend $250 to get my plugins updated to v14...with no new features other then officially supporting MacOS version 12.4 and higher.

Don't bother with WUP until the Waves plugs just don't work anymore. That's been my philosophy, and it hasn't failed me yet; I've been using Waves since I paid $999 for Gold back in 2003.

I did WUP during the 2021 Black Friday period for V13 due to Apple Silicon Compatibility for my new Mac. I don't plan to do so again for a long time, especially since I just got V14 for free and everything seems to be working nicely with DP.

One thing... I don't think the Waves License Manager requires users to download and install ALL the Waves plugins, but it gives you that option, which may be why our OP has so many files on his computer now.

I get the Waves complaints, but would rather moan about NI and other manufacturers who have yet to give us even a PAID upgrade to AS compatibility, thank you. At least NI quickly updated Kontakt to AS-compatible; it is my only truly essential NI tool.

[Jim]

You get two licenses as long as your WUP is current. You could authorize both computers. One year of support (WUP) comes with your initial purchase. You activate the second license in your user account. You need to keep WUP current or the second license goes away.

https://www.waves.com/legal/waves-updat ... conditions

Thanks for that info. I'm not crazy about how so many companies are going to the Death By a Thousand Cuts subscription model. It's becoming standard for video post plug-ins and apps.

[Jim]

I'm aware of many of the gripes about the company and their licensing and monthly / annual ransom.

A thing I've learned about movies and software vendors is that if they start out bad, they rarely get better. Ideally, you don't need support, because their products just work. I figure bug fixes should be included in purchase without "insurance," and major upgrades deserve an upcharge. This is MOTU's model, and I like it. I appreciate when a plug-in "tells me" that a free update is available. That used to be fairly standard with many companies, and still is (so far) with most of my vendors.

I'm also aware that some people love Waves and don't mind their terms and conditions and find them reasonable. So, I appreciate the input here, pros and cons.

[waterstrum]

I think you're totally right. I've used waves for decades as a primary plugin tool set and have a lot of time and money invested in their products. They make some wonderful tools which are very reasonably priced given frequent sales but installing authorizing and upgrading is a nightmarish PITA.

In my case, installing and upgrading Waves plugs has been very easy.
Not the nightmarish PITA you describe.
(maybe Hackintosh problems?)

I authorize the plugs on the Waves site.
I launch the waves central app and it does the installation.
Never had a problem with this.

[waterstrum]

I'm aware of many of the gripes about the company and their licensing and monthly / annual ransom.

If you are talking about waves...
There is no monthly/annual ransom.
You buy the plugs that work on your machine and use them.

Maybe you are thinking of the subscription models that so many companies are adopting.
In that case, I agree with your monthly/annual ransom comment.

Warning for subscription plans...
Once you stop paying, your plugins stop working.
Not great for current sessions or archived sessions.

[bayswater]

In my case, installing and upgrading Waves plugs has been very easy.
Not the nightmarish PITA you describe.
(maybe Hackintosh problems?)

I authorize the plugs on the Waves site.
I launch the waves central app and it does the installation.
Never had a problem with this.

Yes, that’s all easy. The problem is when you update some plugins and not others, or buy some plugins at a current version without updating the plugins you already have. The installer for the later version will delete all the plugins you have at earlier versions.

[pencilina]

In my case, installing and upgrading Waves plugs has been very easy.
Not the nightmarish PITA you describe.
(maybe Hackintosh problems?)

I authorize the plugs on the Waves site.
I launch the waves central app and it does the installation.
Never had a problem with this.

Yes, that’s all easy. The problem is when you update some plugins and not others, or buy some plugins at a current version without updating the plugins you already have. The installer for the later version will delete all the plugins you have at earlier versions.

Exactly.

Honestly, building a hackintosh was comparatively simple compared to getting waves to run properly. I had a tech in Isrrael (very thankfully) fix stuff remotely after I installed one plug in before a session that killed the functionality of hundreds of other waves plugins. Also, I’ve upgraded only to find some plug ins excluded from the upgrade and then been unable to get the same upgrade pricing. It seems like they’ve been using the same structural framework since the late 90s for their installations (shell plugins that point to resources all over the system). Worse, if you have multiple versions you need multiple shells and the installer (and DAW, especially DP) often gets confused. I love using their plugins and will continue to do so regardless of the hassles.

[bayswater]

Worse, if you have multiple versions you need multiple shells and the installer (and DAW, especially DP) often gets confused. I love using their plugins and will continue to do so regardless of the hassles.

Assuming its the same person, that tech from Israel is really helpful.

For the benefit of those with the problem, you need installers for each version, and you have to use them in reverse order of age (newest first). To that end, you should always archive the installers, because the older versions are not necessarily available on the site.

I’ve not had a problem with DP (or any other DAW) getting confused by Waves, but I only use the AU wrapper.