DP 11.1 is out now!

[waterstrum]

I gotta say, this is brilliant!
MOTU made the instruments behave like Logic.
Well done!
That said, I love DP's original MIDI patch bay concept.
Nobody does it better.
The combination of the two modes is a wonderful thing.

[joelmusic]

Thanks for that Michael. I can see the reason of 'space' and once I get used to it I'm sure I'll think of pre 11.1 as the olden days. However, what I'm struggling with now, as an old dog, is: I'm seeing _double_ tracks in the MIDI editor when I used to see just MIDI tracks. I'm seeing the accompanying VI tracks as well. So it _appears_ as more tracks, not less, at this point for me. So I guess I need to filter out the VI tracks and only look @ MIDI? But it's all in one track, but I'm seeing double. Anyway, I know I'm looking dumb right now but oh well, I'm on deadline and just trying to make sense of it... thanks again - looking forward to getting a handle on this!

So what happens here when I "convert" a pre DP11.1 project to the new format is it moves the MIDI to the instrument track, but it doesn't delete the existing MIDI track. After making sure the MIDI and routings are right on the instrument track you can delete the extra MIDI track.

Thanks for that. What happened on my end when converting to DP11.1, it kept the MIDI data in the MIDI tracks and added the VI (in the MIDI Edit window). So, I just went in and copied the MIDI to the VI tracks and deleted the MIDI tracks. I'm unclear as to how to route the MIDI though and I'm getting no sound. I looked on MOTU.com and nothing is jumping out at me. I can already see how this is gonna be a game changer, just have to wrap my head around how to route the MIDI to the audio.

[dewdman42]

…I’m not seeing the advantage of having a MIDI track and the instrument track in the same track.

The best thing about DP’s implementation is that you can STILL use Instrument Tracks the old way if you want to. I pretty much only use them the new way for drum VIs so far.

The dust will settle as people get used to this. Most of the frustrations I see seem to be related to people opening old projects and trying to convert them to single instrument track configuration.

The other DAW's that have had instrument tracks for a long time, also have all supported classic MIDI tracks along with them, either way...which naturally MOTU did keep as well. There are definitely times when the "old" way would be preferable...mainly when V-Racks are being used IMHO. For a lot of cases where people aren't using V-Racks and have typical simple production cases..the new approach will be easier to setup and more consolidated....in a few years from now people will find themselves using bare bones MIDI tracks less and less. This is a very welcome change in DP!

[mikehalloran]

…
The dust will settle as people get used to this. Most of the frustrations I see seem to be related to people opening old projects and trying to convert them to single instrument track configuration.

The other DAW's that have had instrument tracks for a long time, also have all supported classic MIDI tracks along with them, either way...which naturally MOTU did keep as well. There are definitely times when the "old" way would be preferable...mainly when V-Racks are being used IMHO. For a lot of cases where people aren't using V-Racks and have typical simple production cases..the new approach will be easier to setup and more consolidated....in a few years from now people will find themselves using bare bones MIDI tracks less and less. This is a very welcome change in DP!

I agree.

For now, I’m enjoying the ability to not incorporate the new feature on legacy tracks. Summer is coming and then I’ll have some time to learn the new way — looking forward to it, actually.

[dix]

It was/is nice to have the MIDI volume fader in virtual instruments that support it, but that list is pretty small these days, out of dozens of virtual instrument here, only Kontakt, Falcon, Arturia synths (for the most part) support without too much set up CC7 volume control, otherwise it's a bit of a hack. So when hopping to the Mixer there's all these MIDI mixer channels that don't do anything. So IMO this has been a long long time coming, the only "downside" is having to use a MIDI track with a VI to get CC7 automation via the MIDI fader if it supports it.

This makes a lot of sense, and explains something that's been baffling me.

I've noticed in the last few years that some newer VIs don't support CC7 volume by default, and some don't even allow assigning controllers to the volume. Almost all the VIs in my rig still do (in addition to what's above Omnisphere, Ivory, Pianoteq, Sine, Spitfire, all MOTU VIs, M-Tron, Opus come to mind) - but not all newer ones. Being so DP-centric, using a CC7 MIDI fader is so ingrained in my workflow, I couldn't understand how people were mixing VI levels without it. But, duh. If you only have one instrument per MIDI track you just treat the track as you would an audio track. This still seems a lot less elegant than using a MIDI fader to me. Unless I'm missing something that means, unless you want to use a mouse to set all the volumes (or have a control surface I guess), you have to dedicate separate MIDI fader to each VI/MIDI track - rather than using tracks' Record Enable to use a single MIDI fader to set the volume of any track in the project.

Until DP gave us this option, and Michael, who is much more fluent in other DAW's, explained this, I just thought developers were being dense...I still think that, but they're much less dense than I assumed.

[primeevolutionary]

Not a big deal, but, I was curious as to why this update didn’t show up when I was in DP looking under the Help menu looking for updates. It offered 11.04 which I already was on.

[rjrocks]

Hello everyone,

I just upgraded to the latest Dp update and my audio performance peaks even when I'm not playing back. I have the new M1max so that's not the issue. I have a small project and I have to raise my buffer to 512 before it stops hitting the red. Anyone else having issues. I can open files on Logic and Reaper with a 32 buffer just fine so I know it's just limited to DP.

Thanks!

[joelmusic]

Hello everyone,

I just upgraded to the latest Dp update and my audio performance peaks even when I'm not playing back. I have the new M1max so that's not the issue. I have a small project and I have to raise my buffer to 512 before it stops hitting the red. Anyone else having issues. I can open files on Logic and Reaper with a 32 buffer just fine so I know it's just limited to DP.

Thanks!

I too have an M1 Max - are you using NI plug-ins? They were giving me similar problems until I opened DP in Rosetta mode.

[Michael Canavan]

It was/is nice to have the MIDI volume fader in virtual instruments that support it, but that list is pretty small these days, out of dozens of virtual instrument here, only Kontakt, Falcon, Arturia synths (for the most part) support without too much set up CC7 volume control, otherwise it's a bit of a hack. So when hopping to the Mixer there's all these MIDI mixer channels that don't do anything. So IMO this has been a long long time coming, the only "downside" is having to use a MIDI track with a VI to get CC7 automation via the MIDI fader if it supports it.

This makes a lot of sense, and explains something that's been baffling me.

I've noticed in the last few years that some newer VIs don't support CC7 volume by default, and some don't even allow assigning controllers to the volume. Almost all the VIs in my rig still do (in addition to what's above Omnisphere, Ivory, Pianoteq, Sine, Spitfire, all MOTU VIs, M-Tron, Opus come to mind) - but not all newer ones. Being so DP-centric, using a CC7 MIDI fader is so ingrained in my workflow, I couldn't understand how people were mixing VI levels without it. But, duh. If you only have one instrument per MIDI track you just treat the track as you would an audio track. This still seems a lot less elegant than using a MIDI fader to me. Unless I'm missing something that means, unless you want to use a mouse to set all the volumes (or have a control surface I guess), you have to dedicate separate MIDI fader to each VI/MIDI track - rather than using tracks' Record Enable to use a single MIDI fader to set the volume of any track in the project.

Until DP gave us this option, and Michael, who is much more fluent in other DAW's, explained this, I just thought developers were being dense...I still think that, but they're much less dense than I assumed.

One big difference between track automation and MIDI automation is the resolution, MIDI being 128 and track automation typically being 500. Years ago most people using other DAWs and developers writing instrument ceded the easy CC7 latching we get in DP for the 500 or so steps of track automation. Plus a lot of other DAWs have had the sort of control surface support we're seeing in DP11, hopefully MOTU continue to improve on it.

Right now unfortunately I'm seeing a bug in transport control in the Launchpad MKIII here in 11.1, doesn't work right now.

[HCMarkus]

Yes, for fades to zero, Volume Automation is clearly superior to MIDI CC7, but for volume adjustments within a mix, CC7 is just fine.

[Michael Canavan]

Yes, for fades to zero, Volume Automation is clearly superior to MIDI CC7, but for volume adjustments within a mix, CC7 is just fine.

Yep, and of course you can still set up a MIDI track to use CC7 volume with any AUi/VSTi. I like to use both for some things, because you can automate one and use the other for final mix adjustments.

[primeevolutionary]

Please forgive my ignorance, but, don’t a lot of VIs also have timbral changes aligned with CC7 as well, or, is that a thing of the past, or, still possible in the new setup, or, I’m remembering incorrectly?

[Kurt Cowling]

CC7 is for setting overall volume (think mixing board fader). You might be thinking of CC11 (expression) which is for dynamic changes (which may be just volume, but may also include timbral or other changes depending on how the patch is programmed).

[Kurt Cowling]

I should say, my explanation above is how the original MIDI spec was conceived. I agree that you could use audio automation for main mixing and CC7 for finer changes. My main point is that CC7 should only affect volume, whereas CC11 was defined as something that may do more than volume.

[Phil O]

I have gone back and re-visited the VCA track bug. It seems to be fixed in this release.

Your friendly neighborhood Phil