Mac Studio for DP: Priorities? Configuration?

[James Steele]

Okay... so I'm just testing the waters and looking at how I'd want to configure a Mac Studio. I'm thinking I can't really swing the M1 Ultra version, so let's take that off the table.

First thing I'm wondering about. There are two processor options. Both are 10-core CPU and 16-core Neural engine. However the standard base model GPU is 24-core and for $200 more you get a 32-core GPU. My thought is this doesn't really matter for DP so much and audio apps. But I might want to be running several external monitors. (I realize a hub and dongles are in my future). Does that affect how many external displays (or the total resolution) you can run?

Right now I'm running off my HD 7950 card:
• 43" Samsung 4K TV (main monitor) (3840 x 2160 @ 60Hz) connected via mDP>HDMI adapter
• 30" Apple Cinema HD Display (2560 x 1600 @ ??Hz) connected via dual link DVI
• HD TV (1920 x 1080) connected via mDP>HDMI adapter

I found an Active USB-C to dual-link DVI adapter that looks like it would work with my Cinema Display but it's not cheap. $94

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VF1PP8T?re ... DPT6QM3NAF

Seems like I'm bordering on territory where just getting newer monitors would make sense, but I'm trying not to break the bank here, as I'm going to need new audio and MIDI interfaces, too.

All of that, I'm assuming, should be able to run those with proper dongles no problem with the base model 24-core GPU

But what I would LIKE run is this:

(1) 43" Samsung 4K TV (main monitor) (3840 x 2160 @ 60Hz)
(2) 30" Apple Cinema HD Display (DVI) (2560 x 1600 @ ??Hz)
(3) 4K TV (3840 x 2160 @ 60Hz) on opposite wall for synch'd movies
(4) Another monitor, possibly a second 30" Apple Cinema HD (that I already own in my office)

So I guess, all of that should STILL run just fine on the base model M1 Max with the 24-core GPU, yes?

Then there's the $400 bump to go from 32GB RAM to 64GB.

Then to go from the 512GB SSD to 1TB is $200
Then to go from 1TB to 2TB, is it another $200? No. It's another $400!!

That's something I really don't get. 1TB = $200 upcharge. 2TB (double) is $600!!

So if you go with the base M1 Max with 64GB and 1TB SSD you're looking at $2,600.

Then of course the hubs, dongles, external drive enclosures, etc. By the time I buy an enclosure to put my move my two 1TB SSDs over from my MacPro5,1 maybe I should have spent money on more internal drive space. As I recall, since I got them for the MacPro, they're only 3G as I recall. I still have up 3 8TB external USB 3.0 drives for Time Machine backup. Which makes me wonder anyway... for audio, just how fast do you need drives to be anyway?

Ugh... this is just going to be the most expensive transition in Apple history it feels like.

[greg328]

Watching this thread- in a similar situation and need similar answers—!


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[Tonio]

I ordered a base model MAX w/ 24 GPU + 2TB SSD and 64GB ram

Still trying to figure out how I want to run a external for VI libraries and a audio storage drive.

MikeH says its best to BTO the largest you can afford internal drive for working file audio- and use an external for storage.
now I see why

For the vi's I have a SSD, but need a enclosure - assume I should use 1 of the TB4/ USC-C in the back. Most external enclosures @ OWC has a nosiy fan, and no on/off switch

Just to hook up my 828es, I would need a TB 2 to TB 3 adapter since TB 4 is backwards compatible w/ TB 3. OR, I could use the USB A connectors in the back? There only 2 USB A' jacks, so would need a USB hub for all my peripherals- mouse/ keyboard, MIDI controller, printer and whatever else.

I only use 1 monitor , so I'll use the HDMI jack. The 4 TB 4 jack's can be used for 4 monitors, but only up to 2 in 4K ??

T

[Tonio]

Here's Apple's breakdown for monitors, guess I was wrong about only 2 @4K

Simultaneously supports up to five displays:

Support for up to four Pro Display XDRs (6K resolution at 60Hz and over a billion colors) over USB-C and one 4K display (4K resolution at 60Hz and over a billion colors) over HDMI

Thunderbolt 4 digital video output supports

Native DisplayPort output over USB‑C
Thunderbolt 2, DVI, and VGA output supported using adapters (sold separately)
HDMI display video output

Support for one display with up to 4K resolution at 60Hz
DVI output using HDMI to DVI Adapter (sold separately)

[mikehalloran]

TB4 is an extension of the TB3 spec allowing multiple TB3 devices to be hooked up through a TB4 hub or daisy-chained. TB3 ports allow multiple slower devices only one TB3. For Mac users, that’s the only thing it brings to the table — but it’s big enough.

Without going through the marketing and naming confusion that is now USB 3.2, it’s important to know that the max data transfer speed of 2.5” SATA III SSDs is about the same as the USB-A ports, around 550 Gb/s. One of my complaints is that those drives (mine are over Thunderbolt 2) are too slow connected to my iMac Pro, a computer not nearly as fast as the slowest Studio. TB2 is capable of USB 3.2 speed but those drives are not.

Using the older terms. 2800 Gb/s is TB3. Those need to be connected to the TB4 USB-C ports on the back of the Studio or any of the six on the Ultra. 1550 is USB 3.2, 1000 is 3.1 and down the line—those can be connected to the front. OWC’s “TB3 Certified” on some of their 1550 rated drives refers to the bus power requirements—external powered versions of those same drives don’t need OWC’s “certification”.

The point is this: Pay attention to the maximum rated data transfer and ignore the marketing confusion. With bus power, pay attention to the power requirements. Same with cables and hubs—marketing giveth and the fine print taketh away. What’s the power spec and data speed on each port?

Once again, the internal R/W on any Studio with only one SSD (the 512GB and 1TB) should be around 4000 Gb/s. With the 8TB, it’s rated 7600. I’ve not seen any tear down of the 2TB and 4TB to know if they have single or twin blades in there but that’s the determining factor. The canard that Apple’s storage prices are way out of line are not so true when you crunch the real numbers.

By contrast, all 2018 Intel Minis have a single SSD rated around 3600 while all iMac Pros have a twin setup rated @ 7000. So, when I complain about the 550 speed of SATA III SSDs, it’s because I notice the speed differential. Do the math—it’s better than 12x which is considerable. When planning your purchase, I recommend doing your own math. I’ve given you the tools.

Have fun.

As for me, trying to decide if the Ultra is worth the extra $2k for me. Ok, right now it isn’t but what about the future? My crystal ball is a bit cloudy in that regard.

[James Steele]

The canard that Apple’s storage prices are way out of line are not so true when you crunch the real numbers.

I get what you're saying, Mike. It's just that the whole $200 for the 1TB but $600 for the 2TB thing really annoys me. I don't fully understand the rationale for that aside from the fact that they have us over a barrel as internal storage at this point is 100% proprietary.

[greg328]

thanks Mike--

And now-----rumor has it that the Mac AS M2s are on the way...!!

So---now what to do?

I'm waiting until June to see what Apple announces.

I think the reality is, even the base Mac Studio will absolutely BLOW away my MP 5.1 12-core 3.33Ghz---so not sure why I'm waiting. It's the age-old problem with computers---the minute you commit to a machine---it's already out of date! Arrgghhh@!!!

Greg

[James Steele]

You know what's funny? And I know this is cliche, but I try to remind myself that in in 1989 or thereabouts, I paid over $2500 for a Mac SE with 4MB of RAM and a 20MB hard drive. I had to make payments to Apple Credit... LOL. And look at what we get today for the same money! And it's not even the really the same money because it's less than $2500 in 2022 dollars!

I don't know just how accurate this calculator is, but I went here:

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

$2500 in 1989 dollars would be $5796 today.

Screen Shot 2022-04-18 at 1.07.54 PM.png (54.22 KiB) Viewed 1121 times

Or... $2500 today would have been $1197 in 1989.

Screen Shot 2022-04-18 at 1.09.25 PM.png (53.91 KiB) Viewed 1121 times

[greg328]

James- yes- true- amazing value in today’s tech-no question! I’m getting close to doing something soon—


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[HCMarkus]

Here's my spec:

Ultra with base GPU
Fully expecting Apple to release an M1 Plus/Max Mini, I was stunned by the emergence of the Studio. While still in a state of shock, I ordered the Ultra because I just couldn't resist. I am replacing my 2010 12 core 5,1 with the new machine, and fully intend for the new Mac to serve as my studio's heart for years to come. Whether this decision will ultimately turn out to be a cost-effective one is currently unclear.

64GB RAM
I have been paying attention to RAM usage with my 5,1, which is stocked with 48GB of memory. Have not found myself close to pushing this amount of RAM as I run DP (or any other app, for that matter). I run a substantial, but not massive, template in DP and tend to leave unused VIs disabled. Also, research has indicated that I could run a smaller pre-load size for Kontakt than I have been running. As such, I feel fairly confident 64GB will serve me well.

2TB SSD
This decision was one in which I balanced cost with performance needs. I definitely wanted enough space to keep OS and Apps and working DP Projects files on the internal drive. But research has suggested VI load speeds (Kontakt in particular) are load speed limited in software. Others have been seeing nominal speed increases with faster VI storage. I decided to keep my VI Samples on an external Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe SSD housed in an OWC Envoy Express, which supports speeds up to about 1500MB/s. The cost for that 2TB external drive totaled $280, a bit less than 1/2 of what another 2TB of internal storage would run. I have other external SATA SSDs housed in inexpensive USB3.1 gen2 housings that seem to be working well, and long-term backup and Time Machine drives are Seagate 8TB externals.

In Use
I got my Mac Studio two weeks ago, time which included an Easter break. I have managed to port the software and files I need to run DP to the new machine and have successfully taken the machine live in the studio, where I am engaged in a documentary score project at present. Despite many essential plugins still running under Rosetta2, performance has far outstripped my old Mac Pro. I've hit a few snags here and there, some user-error, one DP bug,a few VIs (BFD, NI FM8/Absynth) that will not run when DP is running Native Mode, and some issues with other plugins that I'm working on, but overall, the increased performance more than makes up for the issues I've encountered. I still have the Mac Pro connected and ready to take over on any aspect of the current project in which I run into an insurmountable problem.

Coming from the Mac Pro, the number of external connections is definitely increased. I've got 4 USB Hubs going, connecting all the controllers, external drives and such. The Mac Studio sits in my large studio machine closet with its backside facing the door, facilitating connectivity and making the power switch easy to see and reach. The two front TB ports feed my MOTU 828es interface (making the run as short as possible, necessary due to limited TB Cable length) and my second display respectively. The card slot will get no love.

Since the air outlet now faces the door of the machine closet, I noted that keeping the Mac Studio angled, so expelled warm air is not reflected back into the computer's air intake, is a good idea. The closet is air conditioned and ventilated, but I haven't been running AC yet this year. After making the angle adjustment, I have noted no heat buildup whatsoever, clearly a different beast than the Mac Pro it replaces!

Finally, I am paying the $60 annual Apple Care fee to cover this expensive and difficult/impossible to repair critical piece of gear.