MIDI Program Change Issues in DP9

[JeffatMOTUN]

It has been a while but with the current job environment I am spending more time with DP and MIDI instruments. Often I use virtual instruments but lately I have been using my simple MIDI setup with a Roland JV-1010 in a General MIDI setting, somewhat similar to the JV-1080. The main issue is that even though I place a MIDI program change at the beginning of each instrument/channel in event list, along with controller #7 (volume) and other controllers, the channel does not change to that MIDI instrument. For example, on channel 1 of the 16 available I include a program change to #34 (Fingered Bass) and a controller #7 (volume). The volume setting takes effect but the program change does not. I have found that if I choose the program number as the "Default Patch" it will change as expected until I close and reopen the DP doc file, then it is back to the same behavior. Any ideas anyone?

Finally, I would ask about the information that can be entered as part of a program change in the event list. The event includes, from left to right, a MIDI patch/program number, a sort of diamond shaped icon with a number to the right of it, another number to the right of that, and finally a patch name. What are the significance of the two numbers between the patch number and the patch name? For example, I find that this simple MIDI system works as well as described with those numbers being "81" and "3". Any information would be helpful. Thanks

[Kurt Cowling]

Those two numbers are for Bank Select. Normally sending a patch change command without Bank Select should choose that patch number from within the current bank, but Roland devices often ignore the patch change altogether if the Bank Select numbers don’t come first. Check the devices manual to find out if you can either turn off “require bank select” or figure out the MIDI implementation regarding the bank select. Hope that helps.

[Kurt Cowling]

“Check the device’s manual...” meaning your Roland device.

[JeffatMOTUN]

Thank you Kurt for your very informative answer. Unfortunately that does not appear to be a solution. I have checked the JV-1010 MIDI implementation and reset it to factory default. What I have found is that if I export the MIDI tracks, with program change, bank select, and other controllers included in each track/channel and play that .MID file using a basic MIDI player it all works perfectly. I also confirmed that DP 9.52 is *supposed* to start each MIDI track with the "Default Patch" but it does not, with or without the program change in the event list. The only way I can change each track/channel to the correct sound/patch is by manually re-selecting the default patch that is already displayed. Any ideas? Anyone? Thanks

[Kurt Cowling]

So, it seems the patch changes are present in the tracks but just not being sent from DP. I wonder if 'Event Chasing" is set to not send them? That would really only account for them not being sent when you hit play from some point after the patch change, but might be worth a look. "Setup" -> "Event Chasing", make sure "patch/song changes" is checked black. Do they possibly send from DP when the playhead crosses the point at which they are inserted in the track? Are you inserting the patch changes right at the top. Try inserting a patch change later in the track and see if it is sent then...

Otherwise, since this is a hardware MIDI device, is it possible that your MIDI interface is blocking those messages from DP but for some reason not blocking them from the MIDI file player?

--Kurt

[JeffatMOTUN]

Well Kurt, it has been almost a year and I have updated to DP 10 hoping it would solve this long running MIDI program change issue. Not so! I, of course, experimented with your ideas about event chasing and placing a program change in the event list later in the track but nothing seems to work. I have just been living with it.

You may recall that with a program change at the top of each track I can export the MIDI to a .MID file and play it with a basic player with no issues. In DP, volume (#7), pan (#10), and even effects controllers (#91 & #93) transmit as you would expect but the only way I can send a program change is by manually re-selecting the Default Patch for each track. Can I assume that yourself and others don't experience such problems? Any other thoughts?

Thanks

[motujo3]

This is my first post to this forum. I realize this is the Windows section, and my reply may not be relevant to your original question pertaining to DP9 and a hardware device, but my own search for the solution to making my KORG M1 Legacy plugin respond correctly to patch/bank select events in DP10 on my Mac computer led me to this thread. The result of a burglary a few years ago was the loss of all my music hardware including keyboards, rack units, guitars, amps, mixers, recorders, FX units, microphones, patch bays, etc., etc. I was unable to replace most of those items and have resorted to software emulations of some of them.

As I don't yet know how to find the correct place to post this reply, please forgive my unfamiliarity. It is my hope that this may nevertheless prove helpful to the original question which pertains to the Roland JV-1010 and not a plugin.

Without further ado: the browser button of the M1 plugin has 3 selectable tabs: the first is labeled SEARCH, the second labeled CARD, and the third labeled T1 CARD.

•The SEARCH tab lists all the patches in all the banks

•The CARD tab lists CARD 1 through 21, KLC (presumably Korg Legacy Collection), and USER 1 through 4

•The T1 CARD tab lists CARD 1 through 11.

I have not yet figured out the correct patch change event format for selecting patches in any of the KLC, USER 1 through 4, or T1 CARD banks, but today through trial and error, discovered how to select patches in the CARD 1 through 21 banks, and I'm excited enough about that to take the time to share the solution to that problem here.

So:
the first number in a patch change event (after the # sign) is one more than the desired patch number.
the second and third numbers (after each of the two diamond symbols) are identical and one LESS than the desired card number.

EXAMPLE: the patch change event #21 ◊2 ◊2 will select patch number 20 (SawStrings) in the CARD 3 list.

Even though this is not a complete answer, I've been trying to figure this out for a very long time, and for right now I'm thrilled that I can call up the majority of the patches in the M1 plugin. I will be experimenting with other plugins.

[JeffatMOTUN]

Thanks to all who have replied to this post. I have discovered that if I remove the two bank select numbers from the DP program change event/function in each MIDI track, but leave the program change itself, the program change is sent. If I remove the entire event, no program change is sent, but why does the DP Default Patch function not select the correct program in this case, or any case? All this is even more mysterious since I can export the DP doc to a .MID file with program change/MSB/LSB in each MIDI track and it plays perfectly on a basic MIDI player. I am still searching but at least this is a partial answer and a useful workaround.

[Kurt Cowling]

I recall working with a Roland keyboard a few years ago programming a show. If a patch change was sent with bank select numbers that were invalid according to the MIDI spec of the keyboard then the entire patch change was ignored, not just the bank select part. I suspect DP is sending the patch change with bank select numbers when you have it that way in the event list, but they are not corresponding to a bank on your Roland unit. The error is still probably in DP if a .MID file of the same data is successful (like DP is sending bank select numbers, but not the right ones). Weird.

[CharlzS]

Is it possible that was is a difference when using the keyboard in GM mode? Not sure, but I don't think bank messages are good (or maybe implemented differently) in that mode. Just speculating.

[CharlzS]

So:
the first number in a patch change event (after the # sign) is one more than the desired patch number.
the second and third numbers (after each of the two diamond symbols) are identical and one LESS than the desired card number.

EXAMPLE: the patch change event #21 ◊2 ◊2 will select patch number 20 (SawStrings) in the CARD 3 list.

Even though this is not a complete answer, I've been trying to figure this out for a very long time, and for right now I'm thrilled that I can call up the majority of the patches in the M1 plugin. I will be experimenting with other plugins.

Just a thought . . . you can copy and paste any of card programs into the user banks. Using the KLC and user banks may give you a more straightforward patch selection. The Korg stuff is one of the few VIs that respond to patch changes.

[JeffatMOTUN]

Thank you Kurt Cowling for all your good information. It seems to me that for DP purposes I would only need to set the Default Patch with no program change event in a given track for the correct program to be stored and recalled. My testing shows that not to be the case. How is the Default Patch setting/function supposed to work?

[CharlzS]

Do you have your JV-1010 setup up as a MIDI device in DP bundles? MOTU provides an extensive patch list file for that synth that includes a General MIDI group. Basically all you'd need to do is pencil in a patch change in the SE and then select the GM patch from the pop up lists. Those entries should definitely be chased.

[JeffatMOTUN]

Thank you CharlzS for the thought about bundles. I believe I have my simple setup configured correctly in the bundles setup. However, I would like to share screen images of that setup with knowledgeable forum members like yourself and others. Is there some way to share such images via this forum?

[CharlzS]

Thank you CharlzS for the thought about bundles. I believe I have my simple setup configured correctly in the bundles setup. However, I would like to share screen images of that setup with knowledgeable forum members like yourself and others. Is there some way to share such images via this forum?

You need to host images either third party or links to files in your cloud. I use https://imgur.com - it can host stills or videos less than one minute. Here's a short video showing setup of the JV-1010 in DP on Windows. https://imgur.com/g70NA3N It's a little blurry due to their compression.