Why I left...Why I'm back!

[mikehalloran]

I tolerate Logic because others I work with use it. Worse, I’ve done Zoom classes on it. It’s actually pretty good but “logic”al, it ain’t. The documentation should have been rewritten with 8, then 9, especially X — it refers to functionality that hasn’t existed since OS 10.4 on the PPC for crying out loud. I never participate in any of the forums, however — this, Finale and BIAB are enough, life’s too short. Google is my friend and I can find anything I need.

That said, LPx does have phone support if you need it. Apple never advertises this but you can navigate the support pages to Applications and get a phone call. I’ve only used that once and it was for FCPx. The upshot being that, what I was trying to do was working but on my 2010 iMac, it was going to take many hours. That call convinced me that an iMac Pro was my next machine.

Logic is a big moneymaker for Apple even at the EDU bundle price as is GarageBand, FCPx, and Pages for one simple reason: You need to buy a Mac to run it.

[stubbsonic]

One of the things I was bugged by in some non-DP DAW's is the way quantizing made you pick from a list of standard binary values or triplets-- but lacking tuplets.

I was curious about Cubase and found a video describing some less-than-obvious options for non-3 tuplets. The first interesting thing is that you can drag and drop MIDI to make a quantize pattern-- that you can then save as a preset-- which is pretty cool. The other has to do with the way it an bring the current quantize panel settings over into the display/snap grid. That's pretty clever.

Of course, DP's X notes in the space of Y and other quantize options are quite flexible. It was just interesting to see a different approach to it.

[dix]

I've never tried Cubase, but the list of things I miss about DP presents itself immediately whenever I've tried to work in Logic. Setting aside Logic's impenetrable menus and prefs, you'd think number one might be Chunks, but for me it's Takes. I'm extremely non-committal in general and DP caters to this much more logically, to my brain, than Logic does. How Cubase handles multiple takes of the same performance, MIDI and Audio, would be my first question. Second might be the MIDI Editor - which is where I often live. I could get used to Logic's version of this, but DP's is way more elegant I think. Cubase does what the ME does, but I've only seen videos of it, so I don't know how it compares. Of course there'd be a million more difficult adjustments, and maybe even showstoppers, but these jump out first.

One feature that might keep me from leaving Cubase if I were a user, is in-place, one-step freezing of MIDI (sections, phrases or notes) - I could use the heck out of that. Another is the floating mixer sections. I don't use DP's mixer all that much. Being able to float sections (ala the Channelstrip) would likely immediately become part of my workflow.

...is it bad form to discuss a competing DAW extensively here? Please let me know James, and I'll make sure I keep posts DP-centric.

[Michael Canavan]

I've never tried Cubase, but the list of things I miss about DP presents itself immediately whenever I've tried to work in Logic. Setting aside Logic's impenetrable menus and prefs, you'd think number one might be Chunks, but for me it's Takes. I'm extremely non-committal in general and DP caters to this much more logically, to my brain, than Logic does. How Cubase handles multiple takes of the same performance, MIDI and Audio, would be my first question. Second might be the MIDI Editor - which is where I often live. I could get used to Logic's version of this, but DP's is way more elegant I think. Cubase does what the ME does, but I've only seen videos of it, so I don't know how it compares. Of course there'd be a million more difficult adjustments, and maybe even showstoppers, but these jump out first.

One feature that might keep me from leaving Cubase if I were a user, is in-place, one-step freezing of MIDI (sections, phrases or notes) - I could use the heck out of that. Another is the floating mixer sections. I don't use DP's mixer all that much. Being able to float sections (ala the Channelstrip) would likely immediately become part of my workflow.

...is it bad form to discuss a competing DAW extensively here? Please let me know James, and I'll make sure I keep posts DP-centric.

This is the right sub-forum for it.
I actually really like Logics MIDI editor, DP's has improved drastically in the last couple years though so it's no reason to jump. Just the fact you don't have to deal with those little v's in the CC editor is huge to me.

The caveat is where MIDI stands in regards to Clips, looping etc. and how disjointed it is right now, I really wish MOTU would throw us a bone there.

[dix]

I don’t rely on DP’s Clips yet, but Live-style loops is another feature DP has on Cubase so far I think. …but their object based model is extremely evolved I’m guessing. That might be more immediately useful to me than Clips.

And yeah, DP’s MIDII Editor was picked off the corpse of StudioVision. It was one of the main reasons I went with it way back when.

[Michael Canavan]

I don’t rely on DP’s Clips yet, but Live-style loops is another feature DP has on Cubase so far I think.

For sure,Cubase, R*****, and Studio One are the main DAWs right now that don't have some sort of looping Clips. My gripe is the way Clips is currently handled, with its own cut rate editor for audio and MIDI, no drum editor, no event list, score or waveform editing, it literally shows up blank, no data, in those windows. So if you're just wanting to use Clips to replace the old looping function in DP, it's a huge backwards step. This isn't the case in DAWs that always had object oriented MIDI, and I don't really see why it was left the way it is? I was hoping for an update soon, but I dunno, it's getting late in the game, I suspect it's going to be months before DP11, and who knows about a stability etc. update to 10.

[bayswater]

This seems to have drifted a bit into the direction of a load of other threads.

So to get back on topic -- welcome back antfarm1. Was there ever an antfarm2?

[HCMarkus]

So to get back on topic -- welcome back antfarm1. Was there ever an antfarm2?

Actually, it's aRtfarm1... nourishing creatives everywhere!

[artfarm1]

This seems to have drifted a bit into the direction of a load of other threads.

So to get back on topic -- welcome back antfarm1. Was there ever an antfarm2?

Ha! ....('artfarm' originated with my wife's idea of some arts presentations outside the normal concert hall setting, which we did and do!

Back to having used Cubase and observations:

- I'm able to use Omnisphere inside of DP10 as an ordinary instrument with less of a CPU hit than when in Cubase. I use 'Diva' too, and it runs better in DP10.
- I use VEP for my Synchron SE libaries, and the setup/connectioin/disconnection process seems easier in DP10 (it just works great and I use VEP on the same computer)
- I like DP10's 'nudge' in MIDI Edit window. (Cubase really wants you to quantize everything you do, or be grid-based. You have to really figure out how not to be an over-quantizer in Cubase)
- the ability to change the volume of an audio clip is great now that DP10 has that! (I got used to that feature in Cubase)
- Cubase has this enormous factory sound library that you MUST install in order for it to open properly if you want to use any of it's included instruments or Halion. Good sounds, but wow...you have to really spend some time sorting it all out and figure out what hard drives or going to be used for what purposes. Not fun to figure out if you make a change to any of the paths!

I had some unexpected crashes yesterday that seemed to do with a particular Waves plug-in version. Fixed it up, all is good. Got rid of some other 3rd party plugs that were too old or just not needed anymore. Again, all is good.

I can open up old projects from DP8 and DP9 no problem! Nice!

There are so many upgrade features in DP 10 from DP8 that I still haven't explored them all, seeing as I really didn't use DP9 all that much compared to my continuing to have used DP7 and DP8 while it came out.

DP10 opens up quickly, runs quickly, handles 'tough' VI's even better than Cubase does....what's not to love?

[dix]

The answer to 'what's not to love?' might be lack of timely updates, but for the reasons (relative to Cubase), you mention and many more DP is still the best DAW for my money, and my needs, by far.

Among the points you mention about Cubase that I hadn't known about or considered are: VEP. I'm not sure how I'd work without the MAS version of VEP, which has more capability than the VST or AU versions. And DP's quantizing scheme. I do a lot of work that has nothing to do with a grid. I wouldn't want to be obligated to one. The setup and performance issues you mention, while irritating, are overcome-able I'm guessing. There seems to be a lot of users that have.

But also, more and more of my work is sound design for picture. Your post reminded me that Cubase doesn't even try to have that kind of capability, like DP does. Nuendo, or PT would probably need to be involved if a switch from DP ever needed to happen for me.

Thanks again for the DP v Cubase report!

Bays, I think this thread may run its course soon, but the Cubase aspect, as opposed to the usual Logic etc, has made it useful for me. Thanks for your indulgence.

[mhschmieder]

It's good to have you back, and I learned a lot from your comparison to Cubase as I have barely used my copy and have been wondering if I should toss it as I did my StudioOne license last year. Supposedly it has the most advanced drum editor, but I no longer create my drum parts that way anyway.

Mostly I just replied to bump this topic above all the spam that hit the site today.

[mikehalloran]

It's good to have you back, and I learned a lot from your comparison to Cubase as I have barely used my copy and have been wondering if I should toss it as I did my StudioOne license last year. Supposedly it has the most advanced drum editor, but I no longer create my drum parts that way anyway.

Mostly I just replied to bump this topic above all the spam that hit the site today.

Agreed.

but for the reasons … you mention and many more DP is still the best DAW for my money, and my needs, by far.

My feeling, too.

That said, a bug fix release would certainly be welcome about now.

[Michael Canavan]

That said, a bug fix release would certainly be welcome about now.

This a thousand times over. I have a lot of inexplicable crashes with 10.13. I hope for a bug fix update before DP11 comes out.

[James Steele]

...is it bad form to discuss a competing DAW extensively here? Please let me know James, and I'll make sure I keep posts DP-centric.

I'm not sure if you originally posted it in the OT forum. I may have moved it here. Either way it's in the right place. I just like to keep these discussions out of the "Tips/Tricks" or "Troubleshooting" forums.