DP Control App?

[Michael Canavan]

Agree with all the comments. I wish MOTU would bring back DP Control. I’d even pay for it if they are worried about putting resources towards it.

I would definitely pay for it!

Was that the issue? Was it a free app? (I can't remember.)

- c

It was free. My guess is pretty straightforward, probably the person who coded the app doesn't work for MOTU anymore. The same reason that none of MOTU's plug ins have been updated since 2013.

[dix]

But, unlike DP Control the plugins all still work with subsequent OSs.

I think Michael's guess makes sense. Some enthusiastic programmer probably came up with it in the early days of iOS and has moved on since. With 3rd party apps capable of doing what DP Control used to, it may be less of a priority for MOTU than it once was. Saying "I'd pay for it", which many have been saying since DP Control died, hasn't convinced MOTU. ...yet. we'll see. i'm lamenting, but not counting on it to be resurrected after so many years.

[Michael Canavan]

With 3rd party apps capable of doing what DP Control used to, it may be less of a priority for MOTU than it once was. Saying "I'd pay for it", which many have been saying since DP Control died, hasn't convinced MOTU. ...yet.

What should convince them is spending some time with Logic Remote. It's insane how good that app is.
I was debating getting the Raven software for Logic, but it's kinda not necessary if you have an iPad.
The fact that DP has only Mackie Control type support via third party apps, IMO should motivate them.

[dix]

Another example that demonstrates Apple is, and always has been, selling hardware I guess. In this case two pieces of it!

[Michael Canavan]

Another example that demonstrates Apple is, and always has been, selling hardware I guess. In this case two pieces of it!

Sure, but recently I got bored and looked at the numbers you can get from their Facebook page. 85k members, all paying $200 over the course of ten years (the last time there was a paid upgrade to Logic, they just add features now, they don't charge for them), is still a huge chunk of cash, (1.7 million a year) more than enough to justify coding an app for Logic. Plus they came out with support for the Novation Launchpad as soon as Clips were introduced to Logic.

DP's Facebook presence is around 3.8k over the course of three years it comes to just over 253 thousand a year to spend on developing DP compared to what Apple has to develop Logic. Now these numbers are total absolute guesstimates, with little bearing in reality, but I think what you can glean from it an idea of how much Apple can afford to put into Logic compared to MOTU.

I'm not trying to knock MOTU here, just being realistic about what to expect from them. They really do need to turn the boat around with people outside our bubble. I get told by people using other DAWs all the time that they never even heard of DP. Obviously this is the under 35 crowd, but that's an important demographic.

[bayswater]

I think we should assume a DP Control update is not[YouTube][/YouTube] going to happen. We've been asking for it for years, with no hint of a response. Maybe it was a former employee who developed it, or maybe it was a third party (a la UVI) who developed it and isn't going to grant MOTU a license without payment. Who know, maybe the developer went on to develop Logic control or some other product and is contracted not to do a similar product for other DAWs? There are a zillion possibilities, none of them pointing to a new version. The least likely explanation is that MOTU is somehow blind to a significant revenue opportunity or that it never occurred to them to charge for it.

Maybe one of the members that goes to the annual dinner could ask them.

[kwiz]

Another example that demonstrates Apple is, and always has been, selling hardware I guess. In this case two pieces of it!

I'm not trying to knock MOTU here, just being realistic about what to expect from them. They really do need to turn the boat around with people outside our bubble. I get told by people using other DAWs all the time that they never even heard of DP. Obviously this is the under 35 crowd, but that's an important demographic.

I completely agree. Back in 2018 I did a seminar with them at NAMM and while backstage talking to the big guys at MOTU, I mentioned that DP's demographic was a bit long in the tooth and needed to get some features that would appeal to the younger demo.
I talked about Ableton specifically, and how loop based sequences is something that was appealing to younger music makers.
Next thing you know, we got clips! Not saying that I was the one that sparked that idea but features like that are more appealing to some.
I also think that dragging and dropping plugins on a track, and the ability to add plugins to multiple tracks simultaneously is a must in today's DAW.
Although no DAW is 100% perfect, these little things are great add-ons and are featured in Studio One, PT, Reaper, and Logic.

[Michael Canavan]

Another example that demonstrates Apple is, and always has been, selling hardware I guess. In this case two pieces of it!

I'm not trying to knock MOTU here, just being realistic about what to expect from them. They really do need to turn the boat around with people outside our bubble. I get told by people using other DAWs all the time that they never even heard of DP. Obviously this is the under 35 crowd, but that's an important demographic.

I completely agree. Back in 2018 I did a seminar with them at NAMM and while backstage talking to the big guys at MOTU, I mentioned that DP's demographic was a bit long in the tooth and needed to get some features that would appeal to the younger demo.
I talked about Ableton specifically, and how loop based sequences is something that was appealing to younger music makers.
Next thing you know, we got clips! Not saying that I was the one that sparked that idea but features like that are more appealing to some.
I also think that dragging and dropping plugins on a track, and the ability to add plugins to multiple tracks simultaneously is a must in today's DAW.
Although no DAW is 100% perfect, these little things are great add-ons and are featured in Studio One, PT, R•••••, and Logic.

Yeah it's rough when you look at what's available. As a long time Ableton Live user, DP adding Clips was super exciting to me, but the issue is that MOTU really didn't finish it. For instance every other Clip capable DAW has Stop commands on empty Clips, so unless you specify, the Clip from a previous Scene will stop playing when you fire a the next Scene. This is logical, and you can delete the stop Scene button, then it will behave like DP does. I really wish this was't the case, but DP's Clips are pretty much the worst, Logic, Live, Bitwig all much better at it. They have the possibility of being good, but a lot of things are just flat missing the mark completely. The "back to arrangement" feature is broken, no stop button on empty Clips, no zero quantization for Clip firing, no hardware controller support beyond simple MIDI learn, etc. etc. I don't think anyone who was interested in using the feature as a big part of their workflow would look at DP seriously, it's just super underdeveloped compared. Oh and yeah, being able to add multiple plug-ins to multiple tracks should be added into Groups at the very least. What really irks me to be honest is the great iOS app for their hardware, then no updates or new version of DP Control.

I'm hoping DP11 sorts a lot of this out. I think DP has good bones, I like Logic, but I kinda hate how it treats MIDI, and it's a pain to turn off all the Garageband type features that slow it down. DP's core features are better IMO, I like being able to see a list of busses and instruments instead of having to reassign in the track itself after instantiation etc.

[jloeb]

Gonna ask the dread question:

Is all this, taken in the context of no Big Sur support (M1, Intel or otherwise), MOTU's way of hinting that it's time to leave these elysian fields and move on? Or am I jumping the gun?

Because keeping my main CPU on Catalina solely for DP10 (and, to a lesser degree, Reaktor) is starting to cause significant problems for me at this point.

[James Steele]

Gonna ask the dread question:

Is all this, taken in the context of no Big Sur support (M1, Intel or otherwise), MOTU's way of hinting that it's time to leave these elysian fields and move on? Or am I jumping the gun?

Because keeping my main CPU on Catalina solely for DP10 (and, to a lesser degree, Reaktor) is starting to cause significant problems for me at this point.

I’m sure Big Sur support is coming. There are things you want to run and Big Sur that won’t run on Catalina? I’m in the Stone Age I guess. I have a MacPro 5,1 12 code and I’m running High Sierra.

[dix]

Gonna ask the dread question:

Is all this, taken in the context of no Big Sur support (M1, Intel or otherwise), MOTU's way of hinting that it's time to leave these elysian fields and move on? Or am I jumping the gun?

Because keeping my main CPU on Catalina solely for DP10 (and, to a lesser degree, Reaktor) is starting to cause significant problems for me at this point.

Huh? No...I mean yes, you're jumping the gun. The MOTU website says a Big Sur compatibility is in the works (and presumably Monterey after that). DP11 is also coming. M1 compatibility too, as confirmed in MOTU's twice weekly webinars.

[Michael Canavan]

Yeah I'm not sure why either as far as updating goes you would want to? I'm on Catalina on the laptop and Mojave on the desktop by way of a mod for Metal support, but beyond that I don't see a good reason to force any upgrades to Big Sur?

Sometime in the next couple months I'll be getting a new laptop, and at that point I'll be anxious to see DP on Big Sur and Apple Silicon, but right now, not so much. It would be cool if DP could beat Cubase, Pro Tools, and Live to Apple Silicon though.

[bayswater]

Same here. Having tried out Catalina and Big Sur, I found nothing worked better than it does in 10.14. Even Logic 10.6 doesn't need Big Sur, and I have a few things that don't work in either. The only real crunch is for people who have a new M1. For the rest of us BS is self inflicted pain.

[pencilina]

I suspect lots of us will be clinging on to 10.14 as long as possible. There's also a lot of 32 bit apps I still use that I don't want to loose. I'm hoping to get 3-4 more years out of Mojave. One thing thats nice about a hackintosh (in my case) is that OS upgrades tend to be so brutal you stay with the tried and true. After the initial setup pain you end up with stable system longer then you might with apple HW.

[jloeb]

The MOTU website says a Big Sur compatibility is in the works (and presumably Monterey after that). DP11 is also coming. M1 compatibility too, as confirmed in MOTU's twice weekly webinars.

Good to know; I was not aware of the webinars either.

I’m sure Big Sur support is coming. There are things you want to run and Big Sur that won’t run on Catalina?

iOS dev stuff for med device work. Recent releases of iOS force a requirement for the latest Xcode, which requires Big Sur. I probably need to just move that stuff onto a newer laptop (which means I need to get a newer laptop. ) Or maybe I can hold off if MOTU isn’t too much pokier about it. Just wanted a clue that it’s gonna happen soonish.