What is the future of DP?

[FMiguelez]

I wonder how much the Windows DP version increased sales for MOTU. Was it worth it, or might they regret the added complication and expense of maintaining 2 different platforms?
I'd be curious to know how much revenue DP generates compared to their hardware stuff.

The way it feels now, based on MOTU's glacial pace to release updates, is that they spread too thin their DP development team. MOTU: You really need to hire 2 more Mac programmers (fire 2 Windows guys if you can't afford it )

sustained public involvement on MOTU's part with its user base would help everybody involved's future with DP. I'm on boards with tiny developers who are way more engaged and proactive.

TOTALLY agreed!
We lost our liaison to MOTU after Magic Dave's departure. It kinda feels a little lonely here in that regard, doesn't it?
How awesome would it be if a couple of programmers or managers hung up here with us often? We are a small well-behaved and mostly self-moderated group, so I trust we would be civil, friendly and smart about it... wouldn't we?!?!

Come on, MOTU guys, join us in this party! Come say hi once in a while. Bilateral communication is so important!


I remember that, many years ago, we discussed the idea/possibility of selecting a MOTUNation ambassador to MOTU. This person would have contact with a DP manager or programmer to discuss bugs/suggestions at pre-established intervals, in an informal unofficial manner. This would be our (previously agreed upon among us) top-priority wish-list items and most-urgent bug fixes. MOTU would, of course, have no obligation or expectation to fulfil anything discussed therein, but it would open a very nice comm channel and it would definitely be mutually beneficial... they'd have easy organized access to details and ideas of what their customers really want... Like a think tank served on a silver platter (don't big companies spend millions of dollars annually to get answers to that very question?)

Perhaps it's time to revive that idea?

[bayswater]

I wonder how much the Windows DP version increased sales for MOTU. Was it worth it, or might they regret the added complication and expense of maintaining 2 different platforms?

It seemed a good idea at the time. Apple seemed to be waling away from the professional an creative communities in favour of 12 year olds watching kitten videos. You might remember the fiasco with their video app that had people switching the Windows. They even dumbed down Pages and Numbers and these were already far from "pro ready".

I guess MOTU had to hedge their bets. And it wasn't entirely new -- they had Windows support for other things, and the actual code for both versions of DP is probably the same.

The view you get on this forum suggests that it wasn't a stunning success. Maybe it looks different from other perspectives?

[stubbsonic]

We lost our liaison to MOTU after Magic Dave's departure. It kinda feels a little lonely here in that regard, doesn't it?
How awesome would it be if a couple of programmers or managers hung up here with us often? We are a small well-behaved and mostly self-moderated group, so I trust we would be civil, friendly and smart about it... wouldn't we?!?!

...
I remember that, many years ago, we discussed the idea/possibility of selecting a MOTUNation ambassador to MOTU.

Both of these ideas would be great.

This note about pros vs kitten-vid-watchers-- though blunt, is an apt comparison-- in particular, AppleWorks vs Pages.

In AppleWorks I could make these really complicated layouts-- it was a little glitchy but SUPER powerful and flexible. Pages doesn't come close. Even older Preview was really good for doing quick graphic things-- then later versions they just made it way worse in every way. Though MOTU has ruined a few workflow things in DP for me over the years, in general it has preserved its pro feature-set.

I hope MOTU sees the value in keeping the "old guard" happy. FM's ideas about connecting with a MOTU liaison is a great one. But I could see how it might get complicated.

[Phil O]

pros vs kitten-vid-watchers

You can add QuickTime to that list.

[FMiguelez]

pros vs kitten-vid-watchers

You can add QuickTime to that list.

You can add FaceTime in there too.
It won't let you record conferences anymore (like we could with iChat), not even by recording the screen with QT (it does so without audio). It's so stupid!

I also find it incredibly annoying that there's just no way to record iPhone conversations, not even by physically connecting a wire from the headphone jack to a mixer. WHY???? Is Apple that worried about our privacy? (please don't make me laugh)

[bayswater]

You can add FaceTime in there too.
It won't let you record conferences anymore (like we could with iChat), not even by recording the screen with QT (it does so without audio). It's so stupid!

I also find it incredibly annoying that there's just no way to record iPhone conversations, not even by physically connecting a wire from the headphone jack to a mixer. WHY???? Is Apple that worried about our privacy? (please don't make me laugh)

I assume you're talking about the lack of a recording from within FaceTime? There are any number of articles on how to do it on a Mac, and some 3rd party apps for the purpose.

As for recording iPhone calls, there are some legal issues in some places, but these are moot given you can use Google Voice to record an iPhone call, or do it on Android phones.

[FMiguelez]

Yeah, but that's precisely the thing. You suddenly need to read articles and use 3rd party software to do something you could before by simply selecting a menu item. It is a weaker program in that regard than before... why would they take it out?

Same with the iphone recording calls. Aside from the legal issues you mentioned, why do I have to use a 3rd party to do something so simple?
Are these legal issues a threat to Apple or the users? It must be one HELL of a legal issue for them to go to such lengths as to engineer it to not carry the call audio signal to the output.
But then, using the same logic, how is it different than being able to record video? Or inconspicuously recording audio from conversation in person using Voice Memo? Why do those legal issues don't apply here?

You mentioned you can record calls on Android phones. Do they not face the same legal issues or why is it different with them?

Thank you for the Google Voice tip, BTW.
I'll see what it's about and start using it. Here in Mexico it's almost irresponsible not recording certain phone calls (with banks, accountant, some guy you hire to do work, calls with dishonest DIRECTORS who suddenly forget the agreed terms for the gig --like it happened to me a few months ago, etc).

[mikehalloran]

There are US Copyright and California laws on this. Apple cannot be a direct enabler without being liable.

Screen recording with audio is easy using SoundFlower or BlackHole. There's also a $29 app. There are ways to record phone calls but if both parties do not grant permission in advance, that can land someone in prison.

In my last job, I worked for ASCAP's legal department. Sometimes, I'd be on a call where people would try to trap me by putting words in my mouth. Those calls were always recorded and, as soon as I mentioned I knew this, I'd give the email of one of our attorneys so that the recording could be forwarded. One guy was stupid enough to have an attorney on the call—or his atty was even stupider to suggest it—no surprise that I was able to resolve the issue immediately. anyway, no one ever forwarded those recordings since it would expose them to criminal complaints.

[bayswater]

Yeah, but that's precisely the thing. You suddenly need to read articles and use 3rd party software to do something you could before by simply selecting a menu item. It is a weaker program in that regard than before... why would they take it out?

It's related to the decision to prevent access by apps to the microphone. But this happens with the Mac, it allows apps to request permission to access the Mic. So aside from inconsistency between iOS and Android, even within Apple this is inconsistent. As for legal liability, more inconsistency. If Apple prevented users from using the iPhone to do anything that is illegal in any jurisdiction, the iPhone would do nothing at all.

[Michael Canavan]

So one consistent pattern I've witnessed on forums for a particular DAW, is when the wait for an upgrade is too long people get fed up and post about said DAW in terms that sound like divorce is immanent.

[mikehalloran]

It's related to the decision to prevent access by apps to the microphone.

That's a Security issue. Apps are allowed access—even screen recording (that audio is ok through the microphone) but they must ask first. Lots of malware wants access to your microphone and camera — by requiring every app to request permission beginning with Mojave, the intent is to cripple or slow down the crapware.

It's direct access to the digital audio underneath that Apple has blocked with screen recording. As has been mentioned, there are plenty on non-sanctioned workarounds.

[James Steele]

There is an app to record phone calls on iPhones for jailbroken phones. I have one phone that I no longer use that is still in the jailbroken state that has this app installed. I suppose if I had a critical need, I could put my SIM card back in my old phone to record calls. But yes, all legal caveats apply. Anyway that's OT.

[macnylonguitar]

Long time DP user, since 1.0.

And I worked at Apple when Apple acquired Logic from Emagic back in 2001-2002 or so.

I have been thinking of moving to Logic, mainly since there is a far higher user base than DP, and collaborating, etc is just easier, Logic is Apple owned, so it will always be close to "zero day" support for macOS, and of course now M1 chips. We are 5 months or so in, and waiting for M1 support from MOTU.

I really, really, really want to stay with DP. I know it. I think it is more logical, intuitive, and powerful, than Logic. The GUI is nicer, the mixing console is nicer, love the the new app "zoom"... but it is haggard in many ways, plugins... That being said, I have my plugins: Waves F6 EQ, Valhalla reverbs, ToneBooster Barricade limiter, Waves WLM, iZoptope De-click, etc... But look at Logic included: Fab Filter type channel EQ, Pultec type EQ, API type EQ, Console EQ, Compressors (admittedly a bit boring looking), Chroma and Space Designer reverbs, Alchemy, etc synths.... and yes what is the deal with UVI Falcon / Mach 5... I owned Mach 5 back in the day. How about include a discount on UVI Falcon for DP users...

DP's plugins have not been updated in perhaps 10 plus years, let's get going in that department. I like the 1176 and LA2A, but so old looking, and the EQ is not looking or functioning at all.

Next question, typically DP is updated around NAMM or mid year..How much longer?

Of course the next update will support M1... What will it include and will be it be free?... Maybe just a M1 "update", which would be free. But what would be impactful, is a nice new update, like a 10.5, with what is aforementioned would be great.. Even if there is a price, I would happily pay it, since I know DP and want to stay...I may wait until June 2021, but not Jan 2022. Let's go MOTU, please...

[monkey man]

Long time DP user, since 1.0.

Bravo, mate.

We are 5 months or so in, and waiting for M1 support from MOTU.

Interface drivers were posted 2 days ago, so that's a start.

... and yes what is the deal with UVI Falcon / Mach 5... I owned Mach 5 back in the day. How about include a discount on UVI Falcon for DP users...

Just contact UVI and provide proof of purchase of MachFive; you'll get a cross-grade discount.

[monkey man]

Oh, and Big Sur support coming for MachFive! Just saw this.

From the MOTU site:

MachFive, Ethno Instrument, BPM, Electric Keys and Symphonic Instrument (any version) are not yet compatible with macOS Big Sur. Please continue to check this web page for late-breaking information regarding versions of these MOTU apps that will be compatible with macOS Big Sur.

Link:

https://motu.com/en-us/news/motu-and-macos-big-sur/