Help needed for connecting Yamaha motif rack to MOTU M2

[chrisbak]

Hello everyone!
I’ve decided to revive my old motif rack tone generator and I’d like your professional help for the setup.
I want to record audio to my macbook air (Catalina 10.15.7) by connecting motif’s outputs (L/mono + R) to the 2 combo inputs/jacks of the MOTU M2.
I’m a bit confused about the cables that I must use and afraid of a poor setup that will destroy my equipment.
As far as I know, motif’s outputs are unbalanced so a quarter-inch TS cable is needed.
In the user guide it’s stated that “the two XLR/TRS combo jacks accept a mic cable or a quarter-inch cable, balanced or unbalanced, from a guitar or line level source”
Should I use a TS (motif) to TS (MOTU) cable, a TS (from motif) to TRS (to MOTU) cable or a TRS (motif) to TRS (MOTU) cable? Is my motif rack sound module considered a line level source?
Thank you in advance

[mikehalloran]

You’re overthinking this. The CombiJacks can handle just about anything. Unless noise is introduced, unbalanced TS cables are fine. If the resulting signal is too hot or not hot enough for the gain pot to handle, report back. Inexpensive solutions exist.

The caution re balanced cables with unbalanced sources applies to the line inputs 3 & 4 on the M4 and must be observed— not an issue for you and your M2.

[HCMarkus]

If the rack unit is similar to my Motif ES6, the outputs are unbalanced, so TS to TS cables are all you need. Also, the Motif has a programmable output level; IIRC, I run mine at +4; works great with line level inputs.

[chrisbak]

Thanks a lot guys. You're awesome !

[monkey man]

Indeed they are, mate.

I just checked the manual 'cause I have the rack, and there's no mention of whether the outputs are balanced or not. I then downloaded and tried to read the service manual (rabbit hole!), and could find no mention of it there either.

I use balanced leads for all my synths, but as Mike suggested, you'd be fine with unbalanced (TS) as long as you don't have ridiculously-long cable runs or ones that pass over or nearby transformers or other equipment that might induce hum and / or noise.

[chrisbak]

Thank you for the feedback. I have checked with Yamaha and confirmed that the outputs are unbalanced (maybe at that time all modules had ,by default, unbalanced outputs so it's not referred in the manual itself). I'm using a 1.5m TS cable.
It's encouraging that you can use a TRS cable as well. One thing I don't understand is that the motif's outputs are unbalanced and the ring of the TRS,when connected, should be floating.I have read in a forum (reddit) that plugging a TRS cable in an unbalanced output might cause some issues.Do you think this might happen and have you tried to connect TS cables instead and see if there is a difference with the noise? I'm not a tech guy so all this info comes from "google university".
Indeed, if TRS is better then I should purchase a couple too

[monkey man]

One thing I don't understand is that the motif's outputs are unbalanced and the ring of the TRS,when connected, should be floating.I have read in a forum (reddit) that plugging a TRS cable in an unbalanced output might cause some issues.Do you think this might happen...

It's rare for that to occur in my experience. All the synths I've owned, AFAICR, didn't "care" either way.

... have you tried to connect TS cables instead and see if there is a difference with the noise?

Any noise over and above the noise floor of the unit is cable-induced, not a result of the use of either flavour of plug, Chris.

As I explained earlier, unless you're running the cables over or very-near to RF / EM sources, you'll be fine with unbalanced. If you run them over power cables and whatnot, try to run them perpendicularly (at right angles across) so as to minimise exposure.

[mikehalloran]

I have read in a forum (reddit) that plugging a TRS cable in an unbalanced output might cause some issues.Do you think this might happen...

It can't on an M2.

That caution only applies to the line inputs on the rear of an M4 — and Scarlett Gen3 and many others using this new DAC. It only affects the separate Line Inputs, not those on Combi-Jacks. The danger is that the interface will fry, not the synth connected to it.

All the synths I've owned, AFAICR, didn't "care" either way.

That.

The M4 manual just gives the warning. The Focusrite manuals go into detail. Don't do it.

[chrisbak]

I’m so glad I’ve purchased the motu m2.I’ve been
viewing other interfaces as well (focusrite scarlett 2i2 3gen,behringer uphoria umc304,steinberg ur22 mkii etc)
some being CC and plugnplay on mac but I was intimidated
,while browsing their forums, by the compatibility issues and future mac updates.
Also,this is the only forum where my questions were fully answered!
Thank you again

[monkey man]

Cheers Big-ears.

[artburda]

That caution only applies to the line inputs on the rear of an M4 — and Scarlett Gen3 and many others using this new DAC.

The M4 manual just gives the warning. The Focusrite manuals go into detail. Don't do it.

Actually that‘s incorrect. The manual says the following on page 8:
„15. These LINE INPUTS accept either a balanced or unbalanced plug. Connect a keyboard or other similar line level audio source.“

According to the manual the following is problematic:
„Note: the analog outputs are not cross-coupled. Therefore, when connecting them to an unbalanced input, use a TRS plug with the ring disconnected. Not floating the negative terminal will short it to the sleeve ground and cause distortion.“

[mikehalloran]

That caution only applies to the line inputs on the rear of an M4 — and Scarlett Gen3 and many others using this new DAC.

The M4 manual just gives the warning. The Focusrite manuals go into detail. Don't do it.

Actually that‘s incorrect. The manual says the following on page 8:
„15. These LINE INPUTS accept either a balanced or unbalanced plug. Connect a keyboard or other similar line level audio source.“

According to the manual the following is problematic:
„Note: the analog outputs are not cross-coupled. Therefore, when connecting them to an unbalanced input, use a TRS plug with the ring disconnected. Not floating the negative terminal will short it to the sleeve ground and cause distortion.“

So, as long as you modify the cable there's no problem, right?

In other words, my post was actually correct. Thanks for the clarification.

[artburda]

You: caution applies to the rear inputs.

Motu manual: caution applies to the rear outputs

[mikehalloran]

You: caution applies to the rear inputs.

Motu manual: caution applies to the rear outputs

Or, as I wrote:

That caution only applies to the line inputs on the rear of an M4

I made it big so that you wouldn’t miss it again

[HCMarkus]

Note: the analog outputs are not cross-coupled. Therefore, when connecting them to an unbalanced input, use a TRS plug with the ring disconnected. Not floating the negative terminal will short it to the sleeve ground and cause distortion

It is good to emphasize this fact whenever discussing analog I/O on the current range of MOTU interfaces. Thanks for pointing this out Artburda.

It is also good to mention that using a simple TRS to TRS cable when connecting the balanced 1/4" output of the interface to an unbalanced 1/4" input effectively floats the ring. An unbalanced TS jack contacts only the Tip and Sleeve of a TRS plug. Special cables do need to be made if connecting a pair of interface 1/4" balanced outputs to a headphone amp stereo unbalanced TRS input.