Switching from DP for Mac to Windows 10
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This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [Windows] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [Windows] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
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- Posts: 23
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:15 am
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Manila, Philippines
Switching from DP for Mac to Windows 10
Hello there!
Anyone here who made the switch from Mac to Windows (or vice versa)? Did you experience any issues/improvements since the switch? Considering building a secondary/backup workstation and while Apple Silicon Macs with higher RAM configurations and Big-Sur DP compatibility is probably still around a year away, I am torn between getting another 2018 Mac Mini or building a custom PC. Making the PC into a VEP slave might be an option too but I haven't really dived into yet as I'm genuinely curious about DP workflow for Windows 10.
Thanks in advance and happy holidays!
Anyone here who made the switch from Mac to Windows (or vice versa)? Did you experience any issues/improvements since the switch? Considering building a secondary/backup workstation and while Apple Silicon Macs with higher RAM configurations and Big-Sur DP compatibility is probably still around a year away, I am torn between getting another 2018 Mac Mini or building a custom PC. Making the PC into a VEP slave might be an option too but I haven't really dived into yet as I'm genuinely curious about DP workflow for Windows 10.
Thanks in advance and happy holidays!
2023 M2 Max Mac Studio 64GB; 2020 M1 Macbook Air 16GB; 2015 Macbook Pro i5 8 GB
LPX 10.7; DP 11.11; Sibelius 2020; Notion for iOS
Cinematic Studio Series; Cinesamples; Spitfire Audio; 8Dio; ProjectSAM; Heavyocity; Ample Sound; Native Instruments, Sonuscore; Orchestral Tools; Izotope; Fabfilter
LPX 10.7; DP 11.11; Sibelius 2020; Notion for iOS
Cinematic Studio Series; Cinesamples; Spitfire Audio; 8Dio; ProjectSAM; Heavyocity; Ample Sound; Native Instruments, Sonuscore; Orchestral Tools; Izotope; Fabfilter
- pencilina
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Brooklyn
- Contact:
Re: Switching from DP for Mac to Windows 10
Hi,
I diligently tried switching to windows. My experience is chronicled here:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=67642
In short, it was miserable for me, mostly due to compatibility issue with third party plugins in DP:
-Waves - most of the GUI's are frozen
-PSP - same
-Soundtoys - some GUI elements noy working
This applies to my desktop and laptop. Others have not reported the extent of problems I encountered and are able to use windows. MOTU support was unresponsive.
I also found DP on windows to be less stable. Also, without using multiclient audio hardware, windows can get quite annoying compounded with the fact that most MIDI drivers are not multi-client.
If you build a windows box just to run VEP and leave it offline and stop its ability to upgrade you should be able to get work done.
If you have some time, technical patience and courage, I can't recommend building a Mojave running hackintosh enough. Mine has settled into being a dream machine and shreds running DP with TONS of plugins. In 5-6 years I will probably upgrade to Apple ARM hardware once the SW kinks are worked out.
Good luck!
I diligently tried switching to windows. My experience is chronicled here:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=67642
In short, it was miserable for me, mostly due to compatibility issue with third party plugins in DP:
-Waves - most of the GUI's are frozen
-PSP - same
-Soundtoys - some GUI elements noy working
This applies to my desktop and laptop. Others have not reported the extent of problems I encountered and are able to use windows. MOTU support was unresponsive.
I also found DP on windows to be less stable. Also, without using multiclient audio hardware, windows can get quite annoying compounded with the fact that most MIDI drivers are not multi-client.
If you build a windows box just to run VEP and leave it offline and stop its ability to upgrade you should be able to get work done.
If you have some time, technical patience and courage, I can't recommend building a Mojave running hackintosh enough. Mine has settled into being a dream machine and shreds running DP with TONS of plugins. In 5-6 years I will probably upgrade to Apple ARM hardware once the SW kinks are worked out.
Good luck!
Latest DP, Gigabyte Designaire z390 i9 Hackintosh 32G Ram, Lucid ADA88192, RME FF800 and FF802 on M1 MPB, Ventura, and a Pencilina
Re: Switching from DP for Mac to Windows 10
I considered a PC when I got my 2018 Mini. I didn't find any particular advantage in price or features. I'd have to be particular about the components used to ensure suitability for DAW use, noted PC users posting here seem to have a series of issues specific to Windows that don't appear in OS X.
As for the decision between a 2018 Mini or Silicon, is this just for backup in case your current Mini fails? If so, wouldn't a older used Mac fill the need? We might all be on Silicon in a few years, and it's difficult to see why it would take MOTU a long time to update to compatibility, but we don't know the pain curve ahead.
As for the decision between a 2018 Mini or Silicon, is this just for backup in case your current Mini fails? If so, wouldn't a older used Mac fill the need? We might all be on Silicon in a few years, and it's difficult to see why it would take MOTU a long time to update to compatibility, but we don't know the pain curve ahead.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
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- Posts: 23
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:15 am
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Manila, Philippines
Re: Switching from DP for Mac to Windows 10
Hello! Thank you. Yes, I've read your post prior to starting this thread and your response here has indeed confirmed my "fears" about running it on Windows. I've actually installed Win10 on my 2015 MBP now through Boot Camp just to test DP out. I don't think I'd be able to work as fast as when I am on the MacOS version.pencilina wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:31 am Hi,
I diligently tried switching to windows. My experience is chronicled here:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=67642
In short, it was miserable for me, mostly due to compatibility issue with third party plugins in DP:
-Waves - most of the GUI's are frozen
-PSP - same
-Soundtoys - some GUI elements noy working
This applies to my desktop and laptop. Others have not reported the extent of problems I encountered and are able to use windows. MOTU support was unresponsive.
I also found DP on windows to be less stable. Also, without using multiclient audio hardware, windows can get quite annoying compounded with the fact that most MIDI drivers are not multi-client.
If you build a windows box just to run VEP and leave it offline and stop its ability to upgrade you should be able to get work done.
If you have some time, technical patience and courage, I can't recommend building a Mojave running hackintosh enough. Mine has settled into being a dream machine and shreds running DP with TONS of plugins. In 5-6 years I will probably upgrade to Apple ARM hardware once the SW kinks are worked out.
Good luck!
That Hackintosh of yours does sound like a dream, congratulations on that! Your hard work is paying off!!
Still figuring out if the Hackintoshing route is for me -- considering the patience required.
2023 M2 Max Mac Studio 64GB; 2020 M1 Macbook Air 16GB; 2015 Macbook Pro i5 8 GB
LPX 10.7; DP 11.11; Sibelius 2020; Notion for iOS
Cinematic Studio Series; Cinesamples; Spitfire Audio; 8Dio; ProjectSAM; Heavyocity; Ample Sound; Native Instruments, Sonuscore; Orchestral Tools; Izotope; Fabfilter
LPX 10.7; DP 11.11; Sibelius 2020; Notion for iOS
Cinematic Studio Series; Cinesamples; Spitfire Audio; 8Dio; ProjectSAM; Heavyocity; Ample Sound; Native Instruments, Sonuscore; Orchestral Tools; Izotope; Fabfilter
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- Posts: 23
- Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:15 am
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Manila, Philippines
Re: Switching from DP for Mac to Windows 10
This! Best case scenario would be pretty soon enough (before 2021 ends), MOTU and third party plugins would be able to catch up on Big Sur and Apple Silicon compatibility, and Apple Silicon would start allowing higher RAM configurations. That way, the 2018 Mini I have now would be a very solid backup machine to a newer AS Mac.
Until then, it seems as though an older Mac or a Hackintosh would be the best route.
VEP seems enticing too but I realized it won't really be a backup machine just in case things go south with the main machine.
2023 M2 Max Mac Studio 64GB; 2020 M1 Macbook Air 16GB; 2015 Macbook Pro i5 8 GB
LPX 10.7; DP 11.11; Sibelius 2020; Notion for iOS
Cinematic Studio Series; Cinesamples; Spitfire Audio; 8Dio; ProjectSAM; Heavyocity; Ample Sound; Native Instruments, Sonuscore; Orchestral Tools; Izotope; Fabfilter
LPX 10.7; DP 11.11; Sibelius 2020; Notion for iOS
Cinematic Studio Series; Cinesamples; Spitfire Audio; 8Dio; ProjectSAM; Heavyocity; Ample Sound; Native Instruments, Sonuscore; Orchestral Tools; Izotope; Fabfilter
- Michael Canavan
- Posts: 3579
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: seattle
Re: Switching from DP for Mac to Windows 10
Hey, I know a lot of us are getting PTSD from OS 9 to OS X, PPC to Intel, but I'm kinda sorta obsessed with reading up on this switch to Apple Silicon, and there is far far less to worry about.yperochiakeraiotita wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:42 pmThis! Best case scenario would be pretty soon enough (before 2021 ends), MOTU and third party plugins would be able to catch up on Big Sur and Apple Silicon compatibility, and Apple Silicon would start allowing higher RAM configurations. That way, the 2018 Mini I have now would be a very solid backup machine to a newer AS Mac.
Until then, it seems as though an older Mac or a Hackintosh would be the best route.
VEP seems enticing too but I realized it won't really be a backup machine just in case things go south with the main machine.
So first off, these machines are poised to absolutely skunk Intel and AMD except at the most ridiculous core configuration levels. Initial results from the bottom of the barrel cheapest and least powerful M1 Apple Silicon chips in the Air, Mini and 13" Macbook Pro have the chips crushing nearly every chip out there in single core results. The chip released is essentially a 4 "performance" core chip with 4 "efficiency" cores for daily driving. They nearly beat the current 16" 8 core i9 Macbook Pro, and trounce it in tasks that rely on a single core. The next round with the 16" and possibly the lower end iMac should crush pretty much any Intel mac barring the top of the line latest Mac Pro.
This isn't the same as the PPC to Intel switch, the performance differences are going to be flatly obvious. Microsoft is already talking about following suite and making their own chips, because this is exactly why these supposedly low CPU speed chips are competing with the highest single core results out there. The fact that the chips are specifically designed for the OS that runs them is resulting in some really shocking improvements in performance, the System On a Chip design speeds everything up, and the Arm chip itself is just a better design than x86.
So in terms of Rosetta, this is also looking a lot better than last time, people are reporting higher track counts with plug ins running in Rosetta than on Intel machines. Vienna Instruments unofficially stated that reports are coming back that VEP is running astoundingly well in Rosetta on the bottom of the barrel M1 macs out right now. This is absolutely the worst time to switch to Windows, there's no real reason to. The only thing that may still be a valid reason is for PCIe cards and as a VEP slave with a noisy custom PC in a closet etc.
I know DP isn't Apple Silicon native yet, but I have zero compunction or interest in getting another Intel Mac or switching to Windows, this is looking like a truly positive move that Apple made here and the only hassle is waiting for the coming 12 and or 16 core machines coming out next year, hopefully before June. When that happens I think I might be first in line attempting to run DP on one of these new chips, and I will definitely let people know how it goes.
M2 Studio Ultra, RME Babyface FS, Slate Raven Mti2, NI SL88 MKII, Linnstrument, MPC Live II, Launchpad MK3. Hundreds of plug ins.
Re: Switching from DP for Mac to Windows 10
Same here. But neither do I intend to get a Silicon sooner than I would have got a new Intel, had Apple never changed chips. As much as a marvel of technology it might be, the 2018 Mini rarely breaks a sweat. Of all the things preventing me from making better music, the computer doesn't even make the list.Michael Canavan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:10 pm I know DP isn't Apple Silicon native yet, but I have zero compunction or interest in getting another Intel Mac or switching to Windows
My reservation is not so much the hardware, but the software. Apple's record on that, AFAIC, has not been that great in the past few years. There are signs of improvement in QC, but they're not there yet. "Just works" is long gone. I'm glad I have plenty of time to see if their software catches up with the hardware. And who knows what MS will come up with when they go to new hardware?
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
- Michael Canavan
- Posts: 3579
- Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: seattle
Re: Switching from DP for Mac to Windows 10
Yeah my MBP here is a 2012 , so I was already deciding whether to buy the 16" i9 8 core mbp or maybe a switch to the Zenbook Duo for the touch screen, but DP isn't that great with a touch screen outside of the Slate Raven. Luckily enough I hesitated long enough to know I need to wait for the second generation Apple Silicon. Already these things are coming in as really powerful and this is first generation, no one is complaining so far about build quality etc.bayswater wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:35 pmSame here. But neither do I intend to get a Silicon sooner than I would have got a new Intel, had Apple never changed chips. As much as a marvel of technology it might be, the 2018 Mini rarely breaks a sweat. Of all the things preventing me from making better music, the computer doesn't even make the list.Michael Canavan wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 9:10 pm I know DP isn't Apple Silicon native yet, but I have zero compunction or interest in getting another Intel Mac or switching to Windows
My reservation is not so much the hardware, but the software. Apple's record on that, AFAIC, has not been that great in the past few years. There are signs of improvement in QC, but they're not there yet. "Just works" is long gone. I'm glad I have plenty of time to see if their software catches up with the hardware. And who knows what MS will come up with when they go to new hardware?
Another point in Apples favor here, iOS is OS X, that's not just marketing, so the actual on the ground coding for the chips has been done for a dozen years really. Only time will tell, but this is pretty much the point where only Apple will be to blame for shortcomings, no Intel with priorities outside of the I would bet less than 15% of their business that Apple constitutes to point at for thermal issues, mistakes in speed-stepping etc.
M2 Studio Ultra, RME Babyface FS, Slate Raven Mti2, NI SL88 MKII, Linnstrument, MPC Live II, Launchpad MK3. Hundreds of plug ins.
- mikehalloran
- Posts: 15242
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
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- Location: Sillie Con Valley
Re: Switching from DP for Mac to Windows 10
Agreed.Of all the things preventing me from making better music, the computer doesn't even make the list.
There was an issue with my 14 Core iMP that got in the way but it was with the number of projects I have on my plate at any given time and that was the onboard storage. While upgrading to 4TB, an 18 Core wasn't much more expensive so I went for it. Frankly, I hadn't expected DP to be faster and was pleasantly surprised that it was — who knew?
In any case, the new iMP shaved hours per week off my workload and I don't regret the purchase. Waiting for that round of Apple Silicon that I really want wasn't practical. Oh well…
Whether/when I upgrade from here will depend on many things including the state of my church gigs, lockdown and my need to be doing this online, what I can sell my iMP for when the time comes and other factors.
Windows is not a consideration, however. I never liked it even when I was supporting it here in the Silicon Valley and it was required for later employment.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4.1, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4.1, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
- pencilina
- Posts: 757
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Brooklyn
- Contact:
Re: Switching from DP for Mac to Windows 10
You're very welcome. If you don't foresee needing to do significant upgrades for a while, a hackintosh might be the way to go. If you follow a popular build very carefully its relatively easy. Honestly, hackintintoshes can get annoying but nothing along my journey was as frustrating as trying to get DP to run my plugins properly in windows which I still haven't been able to resolve.yperochiakeraiotita wrote: ↑Sun Dec 27, 2020 5:37 pm
Hello! Thank you. Yes, I've read your post prior to starting this thread and your response here has indeed confirmed my "fears" about running it on Windows. I've actually installed Win10 on my 2015 MBP now through Boot Camp just to test DP out. I don't think I'd be able to work as fast as when I am on the MacOS version.
That Hackintosh of yours does sound like a dream, congratulations on that! Your hard work is paying off!!
Still figuring out if the Hackintoshing route is for me -- considering the patience required.
Latest DP, Gigabyte Designaire z390 i9 Hackintosh 32G Ram, Lucid ADA88192, RME FF800 and FF802 on M1 MPB, Ventura, and a Pencilina