Wide Open West

[KenNickels]

Hello Motu'sers

After figuring out some nagging performance issues with my VI's, I've got my track count up to 50 and a mixdown without the need for submixes or stems. I think it came out pretty good and I wanted to share it with you all. I take that back. The brass was submixed with the Motu 'Dynamics' compressor. And also I used the Leveler on the bus, which is always surprising in what it does. It doesn't work well in a bounce so this is a real time mix. I welcome your comments as I'm always working to improve my mixes. Thanks.

https://soundcloud.com/nickel-smith/wide-open-wyoming

[stubbsonic]

Wow, Ken. It's fantastic! The only thing I noticed was I had to crank my volume up a little. If you're levels are ok, then that's fine. (Could be something about my system).

Beautiful work, Ken.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Nice. Yes, levels are a little low. Xenon!

$249 now. I think I paid either $25 or $49 on sale. Use it on every mix now.

[KenNickels]

Hmm. The Mix track and Master fader were set to 0, and the levels were near 0 with some loud parts over that. My new speakers were calibrated with pink noise at 80Db in the sweet spot. Maybe this was too loud?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Web stuff usually needs a little more umph!

[stubbsonic]

If you're levels were near zero, then you are doing everything right.

It's kind of the nature of dynamic music, that there are little transients that poke out- which determine the ceiling.

Depending on how your music will be enjoyed, you can decide if you want to sacrifice some of the dynamic range, in order for it to be less quiet seeming in the context of other material out there. And that is a choice you can make.

We used to refer to someone having to turn their stereo up, then banging their shins on the coffee table as they rushed to turn DOWN the stereo when the next CD came up AFTER ours.

But still, I really prefer to listen to music that has natural dynamics and sound (like what you get with a live performance). The next best thing is to find a limiter that can help you bring up levels without obviously damaging the quality or dynamic feeling, as MLC has recommended.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

There are, for example, specific guidelines for levels for TV and movies, but for web I’m not so sure every creator of content is mastering equally.

[HCMarkus]

Very nice!

As far as level goes, it seems low to me, too. You can see a single substantial peak at about 6:05 in the Soundcloud display; if you don't think it will hurt too badly, you could limit to gain some volume overall. Obviously, you do not want to squash this piece, but a little dynamic control will likely go unnoticed, allowing you to pump up your overall level for the web. Another trick is to further reduce the volume of the piece just ahead of the big hit, so a slightly reduced hit still punches hard.

I like Waves L3 or L3-16 for keeping dynamics under control transparently.

[bayswater]

I like it too.

As for the levels, I first listened to it on my laptop with headphone with the system volume up less than halfway, and it was fine. The phones were close to distorting even at 40% so no problem there.

But then I ran a few of its louder passages from Soundcloud through Soundflower into Quicktime audio recordings, and loaded the sound file into DSP-Quatro. All levels at max. The peaks rarely get to 50%.



(I've deleted the saved audio file shown here.)

I've had this same problem with DP levels. DP can show a mix running very close to 0 db, but exporting to DSP-Q shows different levels, with passages showing 0 to -3 db in DP coming in at -6 to -12 in DSP-Quattro (and other apps). I've seen similar comments from others. I don't suppose DP is showing incorrect levels, but there's obviously something about the basic metering in the DP mixer I don't get.

[KenNickels]

Thanks, bayswater, do you import your DP audio files into DSP-Q for mixdown or do you do your mix in DP, then process the final mix in DSP-Q. If you do it the first way then you could not use DP's effects, because they are MAS, not UA, right?

[bayswater]

The mix is always in DP, but other than that, I do whatever seems to work for the particular track. That might be pushing the final limiter harder in DP, or just importing the 2 track into DSP, and increasing gain there.

Some day I'll spend some time trying to get DP and other apps to agree on levels so I can make sense of this.

[KenNickels]

Nice. Yes, levels are a little low. Xenon!

$249 now. I think I paid either $25 or $49 on sale. Use it on every mix now.

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out.

[MikeInBoston]

I really like it. Can you tell us something about your composition method(s). To my ears, some of it was a little reminiscent of Copland harmony (pandiatonic). Did you also use chords built of fourths? It's certainly more than just triads.

Mike

[KenNickels]

I really like it. Can you tell us something about your composition method(s). To my ears, some of it was a little reminiscent of Copland harmony (pandiatonic). Did you also use chords built of fourths? It's certainly more than just triads.

Mike

Thanks, Mike. This was to be the first movement of a symphony, and I had put up postit notes around the house to remind me that 'if it's not organic, it's not a symphony.' So that was the prime directive for composing. It was a programmic symphony and this movement was 'What the Buffalo Saw.' But the symphony never materialized and all the movements became stand alone pieces. So I was guilded by visions of the Buffalo as seen and used and hunted throughout the history of the American West. The buh-Bump! motif is carried throughout the piece. It represents the footsteps of the heavy beast. Then it is morphed and developed into melodic bits and chords, like the brass figures in the beginning, or other two note cadences. I included a link to the video which I made after the music, which might make the connections clearer, even if they were already laid out in the music. There are some chords built on fourths but not many. It's generally in ABA form. The recapitulation is represented as winter where the jubilation in the beginning dies away and is transformed into plaintive cries as the buffalo once again has the land all to himself.

https://youtu.be/aTgRL01I9cU

[MikeInBoston]

Very interesting, Ken. Do you have any plans for having an orchestra perform the piece?

Mike