Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.
User avatar
stubbsonic
Posts: 4601
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:56 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by stubbsonic »

One more plug for M/S. X/Y mics are ok, but remember that neither mic is actually pointing at the object of your desire. With MS, you get a nice center that you don't with X/Y. It is a subtle difference, and X/Y recordings can sound good & wide, but since you're already a fan of M/S, I'll just say that for me, that is the MAIN thing I love about the H2n.
M1 MBP; OS 12, FF800, DP 11.3, Kontakt 7, Reaktor 6, PC3K7, K2661S, iPad6, Godin XTSA, Two Ibanez 5 string basses (1 fretted, 1 fretless), FM3, SY-1000, etc.

http://www.jonstubbsmusic.com
User avatar
monkey man
Posts: 13918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by monkey man »

I wanted to chime in earlier with this but haven't had an opportunity 'til now, when a 2-hour power outage meant there's a window available before I fire up the VPN again.

When researching this a few years ago I stumbled upon an assessment / comparison of the then-available (2 years ago) Zoom and Tascam units.

The Zooms where feature-rich and easy-to-use, but when it came to the quality of the noise they generated the Tascams won hands-down. Turns out the Zoom models' noise was harsh across the range and the Tascam units' smooth.

Just sharing this 'cause for some this stuff matters, even 'though the noise floors are very-low.

Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
MOTU DP8.07, MachFive 3.2.1, MIDI Express XT, 24I/O
Novation, Yamaha & Roland Synths, Guitar & Bass, Kemper Rack

Pretend I've placed your favourite quote here
User avatar
stubbsonic
Posts: 4601
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:56 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by stubbsonic »

One thing about the H2n is that you HAVE to make sure the backlight for the display is off when recording something important. It does add a little noise-- but when the backlight is off, it's clean. I'm guessing the testers may not have known this.

I usually set it to go off after a few seconds (to give me time to set levels).
M1 MBP; OS 12, FF800, DP 11.3, Kontakt 7, Reaktor 6, PC3K7, K2661S, iPad6, Godin XTSA, Two Ibanez 5 string basses (1 fretted, 1 fretless), FM3, SY-1000, etc.

http://www.jonstubbsmusic.com
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by mikehalloran »

I have no horse in this race as I am happy with the various choices I own and have no need to find another.

I suppose that, if I was in the market, it would be for the H2n because of the various pickup patterns and that is weighs under 5oz.

I was noticing that most portable recorder comparisons left out the H2n. Then I found this.
https://itemvsitem.com/tascam-dr-40-vs- ... -you-pick/

If you scroll to the bottom, it links to a number of other A/B reviews of various portable recorders.


It is clear that most multi recorder reviews aren't. They're just compilations of what someone finds on the internet and no actual testing is being done. Instead, it's just feature and spec comparison. That has some value but not as much as the authors think. My favorite was the one going on about the H4n portability then listing it as 10.5 Lb (my friend's feels more like 1.5 Lb.).
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by mhschmieder »

Sound-On-Sound does an updated review every 3 years or thereabouts, and did one recently -- not sure if it's opened up for non-subscribers yet as I haven't checked, but a couple of new models came along since NOV and definitely won't be in that review.

I am pretty settled for many years now on the brands that I consider to be worth having on the list, even if some of their lowest-end models aren't:

Olympus
Roland/Edirol
Korg
Zoom
Sound Devices

Reliability matters to me the most, and is why Tascam and a few others don't make the cut. The worst cost/quality ratio is unsurprisingly Roland/Edirol, but they also were the only ones up until recently to offer four channel playback, which I used to need on stage (but don't anymore). Sound Devices is the cream of the crop and now have a $700 USB model that is sort of a mixer as well. Worth a look; their higher-end gear is as pro as it gets.

The main caveat with Korg is that their bitstream approach isn't compatible with anything else, and the apps are quirky that get you from there to consumer formats of audio.

Olympus and maybe Zoom, also now have bitstream models. Not sure if the accompanying software is "easier to use" (a subjective statement) than Korg's. SOS does a thorough job of covering every angle though.

So, other than reliability, intermediary software for editing or converting files, number of simultaneous output channels, and similarly for input channels, the main things are then which file formats are supported, whether uncompressed audio (or at least lossless) is available, and perhaps most importantly once the playing field is level (which by now it likely is), what mic configurations (Mid-Side and ORTF are more flexible downstream than X/Y, which can have uncorrectable phase issues).

For field use, other factors also come into play, such as weather-proof casings, which Sound Devices ship with but maybe the others too, or at least after-market casings might be available. Sensitivity to vibrations is probably also a big factor in field work, and whether it can be mounted on a tripod. If collecting ambient data, multiple mics might be an absolute.

I'm not up-to-date on current models so can't make outright recommendations, but the trends have not changed, except that Zoom went from being an entry-level maker to one that produces some truly professional gear.

I have experience with a LOT of the models out there; I just haven't owned any myself as I keep putting it off. The higher-end Zoom models have impressed me with their audio quality and mic flexibility. Many models can accept external mics via XLR (and not just Zoom's models).

The main problem I see with recordings that others do (and which I then have to deal with), is super-hot signals that is bleeding and clipping like crazy. Running any of these recorders in default mode usually leads to overly hot levels.

As field work usually requires attention on the subject more on the gear, it's worth downloading some user manuals and reading SOS reviews and others, to see which ones are the easiest to set up for auto-detecting or pre-compensating for large dynamic range.

Especially if you need what you capture to be a keeper vs. a rough take or demo for deeper recordings (even in field work, this is sometimes the case), give some lead time on the recording and deliberately produce some wild transients, to "train" the recorder to expect a large dynamic range, as otherwise the first loud noise may suddenly (but not quickly enough) shift the recording level, leaving you with an "interesting" engineering problem.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by mhschmieder »

BTW I am too busy to really look anything up today (or until next week), but Yamaha had some nice recorders a number of years ago, with great form factors, reliability, flexible miking options, and good audio quality, but I think they might have exited the market or shifted to focus only on the low-end?
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
FMiguelez
Posts: 8266
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by FMiguelez »

Mark, it's always a pleasure to read your reviews.
Also, thank you for the SOS tip. I used to be a subscriber. It's an excelent magazine, so I might kill 2 birds with one shot and re-suscribe while I'm there checking the reviews.
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
User avatar
FMiguelez
Posts: 8266
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by FMiguelez »

stubbsonic wrote:One more plug for M/S. X/Y mics are ok, but remember that neither mic is actually pointing at the object of your desire. With MS, you get a nice center that you don't with X/Y. It is a subtle difference, and X/Y recordings can sound good & wide, but since you're already a fan of M/S, I'll just say that for me, that is the MAIN thing I love about the H2n.
Agreed. The more I read about it, the more I see how I would benefit from that stereo format.

My sister will visit from NY next month. She will bring my new recorder, so I don't have to feed our gluton government parasites with outreagous import taxes (which they steal anyway) :smash:
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by mhschmieder »

Yeah, I personally have more direct experience with ORTF than M/S, but stopped using X/Y altogether many years ago by now. I mostly use ORTF in conjunction with other miking techniques, when doing drums, but also for a few other things as well. But M/S is probably the most flexible and versatile of them all, and applicable to the most contexts, so having a portable recorder that is already set up for that, is a strong plus in my view, and in fact for me personally is a go/no-go.

I've been thinking of getting a good portable recorder before my next vacation (I haven't taken one in five years), so I can record local musical acts and offer to get them reasonably well-produced copies upon my return home -- better than most of them could achieve where they live, in the areas I am most interested in such as the Atacama region of South America.

I'm curious to hear people's experience with M/S in outdoor work, as that is the main thing I would personally be buying a portable recorder for. Does the lack of reflective surfaces and confined spaces negate any of the advantages of M/S over ORTF, Decca-Tree (not practical in the contexts described above), Spaced Pair, etc., when doing "location" work (mostly unamplified, in small settings, such as in the zocalo at Copacabana adjacent to Lake Titicaca in Bolivia).
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
EMRR
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:17 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by EMRR »

I've just started test driving a Tascam DR-701D, might be more power than needed. 4 channels with phantom power, gangable gain in any configuration, deep monitoring options, light and about the size of your outstretched hand. Will attach to the bottom of a DSLR and HDMI connection will let it start/stop along with a camera. Timecode. It seems very serviceable, and will record and monitor Ambisonic and mid-side inputs. Only downside I see so far is deep menu (size related) and short battery life (use an external power pack with it).
Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders
The Martha Bassett Show broadcast mixer
Tape Op issue 73

DP 11.31
Studio M1 Max OS12.7.3
MOTU 16A and Monitor 8
M1 Pro MBP for remotes and editing
User avatar
MIDI Life Crisis
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

EMRR wrote:I've just started test driving a Tascam DR-701D, might be more power than needed. 4 channels with phantom power, gangable gain in any configuration, deep monitoring options, light and about the size of your outstretched hand. Will attach to the bottom of a DSLR and HDMI connection will let it start/stop along with a camera. Timecode. It seems very serviceable, and will record and monitor Ambisonic and mid-side inputs. Only downside I see so far is deep menu (size related) and short battery life (use an external power pack with it).

Sounds pretty sweet.
2013 Mac Pro 32GB RAM

OSX 10.14.6; DP 10; Track 16; Finale 26, iPad Pro, et al

MIDI LIFE CRISIS
User avatar
Prime Mover
Posts: 2439
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:19 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by Prime Mover »

Sorry I didn't jump in on this thread earlier, since this is what I do for my day job.

I use a Sound Devices MixPre-3, which is amazing, though on the expensive end, and a little tricky to setup. The unfortunate thing about a lot of this high end gear is that the big demographic for these things is in the film/video industry, and that crowd has VERY different needs in terms of minor features and interface setup. You'll find yourself spending a good deal of time at the beginning trying to ditch all the finicky timecode and interface BS that audio guys like us will never ever use. But behind that is an incredibly high quality, very usable audio recorder that you can use in X/Y or M/S. TBH, I have almost no experience with M/S, and I don't really want to learn on the clock, so I've just kind of stuck with X/Y. Plus, it makes more sense for the ambiances that I do. If I were doing more directional object sounds, I would definitely try a M/S setup.

Prior to that, I used an H4n, which I still use today. There's a new "Pro" version that just came out with even cleaner pres, and I would highly recommend. One thing I would NOT recommend is using any of these lower-end recorders with an external mic. Every article that I've read suggests that they're setup and tuned for their own high-gain internal mics, and the noise floor takes a big hit when using external condensers without also using an external preamp in-between.

So I use the Sound Devices MixPre-3 with an Audio Technica BP4025, housed in a Røde Blimp, which is really nice for recording out in the field. I swore that AT made an identical but M/S version of the BP4025, but it looks like either I was wrong or they've discontinued it. Consider that if you go the external route, you're pretty much looking at $1300+ though.
— Eric Barker
Eel House

"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio"
MacPro 1,1 2Ghz 7GB RAM OS 10.6.8 | MacBook Pro 13" i5 1.8Ghz 16GB RAM OS 10.8.2
DP7/8 | Komplete 7 | B4II | Korg Legacy Analog | Waves v9 (various) | Valhalla Room | EWQLSO Gold
MOTU 828mkII | MOTU 8pre | Presonus BlueTube | FMR RNC
Themes: Round is Right and Alloy
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by mhschmieder »

Doug, let us know how the Tascam reliability works out for you. When they first came out with theirs, I felt it had the best feature set, then got scared away by all the reliability reports. Maybe since Gibson bought them a few years ago, that situation has improved, with corporate backing.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by mhschmieder »

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... gIYEPD_BwE

The MixPre was the one I alluded to earlier, but the model above is the one I was familiar with. I didn't know about the even cheaper three-input version. I consider that VERY CHEAP for what it is.

I think I am now inclined towards the Sound Devices MixPre-3 over the other choices, for quick location work and live gigs, rehearsals, etc. But for foreign travel, I'd probably feel bound to an all-in-one type device.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
EMRR
Posts: 1079
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:17 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Please recommend a great audio recorder for the field...

Post by EMRR »

mhschmieder wrote:Doug, let us know how the Tascam reliability works out for you. When they first came out with theirs, I felt it had the best feature set, then got scared away by all the reliability reports. Maybe since Gibson bought them a few years ago, that situation has improved, with corporate backing.

Gibson is always a bad sign, especially with the reports of being near bankruptcy.

It seems to sound good so far. I've used a 12000 mAh power pack with it, and barely ran it down after 6 hours with four phantom powered mics.

The reliability reports I saw seemed to relate to the SD card used. I think I managed to make it lock up once while doing a bunch of speedy comparisons with media removal and loading, not the sort of things you'd do normally. It rebooted quickly. DP (at least 8.07) doesn't recognize either of the Ambisonic or multi-channel combo files, so if you record that way you have to use their app to decode into mono files. You can record mono files instead if you want. I honestly don't know what does recognized those multi-channel file types.

I went with it as I got a great price on an open box unit, and couldn't justify the stretch to the Sound Devices units. I really needed 4 channels minimum too.
Doug Williams
Electromagnetic Radiation Recorders
The Martha Bassett Show broadcast mixer
Tape Op issue 73

DP 11.31
Studio M1 Max OS12.7.3
MOTU 16A and Monitor 8
M1 Pro MBP for remotes and editing
Post Reply