Open Sound Control, and the DP Control Debacle

Killahurts · Post by **Killahurts** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:07 am

First, a rant:

OK, I've had enough. I will not hold my tongue any longer. For MOTU to let DP Control die, when ALL the other DAWs on the market have excellent iPad controllers, is unconscionable. How hard can it be for a company the size of MOTU? They make device controllers for their new hardware, otherwise they couldn't compete in that market in this day and age. So why do DP users get the short stick?

My Matrix console uses Mackie Control (a main controller and an XT driver, for 16 channels). I used to be able to run both the MCU driver and an OSC driver (with DP Control) at the same time, which let me have my console controller proper, and also a simple remote control with transport, mutes and record enable for the tracks, which is all I need. DP Control was abandoned long before it stopped working completely, and with no word whatsoever from MOTU, I assumed that an update was on the way. Years have passed.

So I have purchased more $5- $50 iPad apps than I can keep account of, and none of them work. At all. Even when I follow the convoluted connection instructions to the tee. If I do per chance get a connection, they all convert everything into Mackie Control, or it doesn't work with DP. Touch OSC, which is the Open Sound Control protocol, doesn't work with DP unless you get the OSCulator software with it, which converts it into Mackie Control. And even then, there is one DP template out there for sale, with no try before you buy. In my experience, nothing in iOS will work as a second MCU extender to my console, and the iPad controllers I've worked with will not allow two master MCUs, so I would have to take my console out of the picture to get the stupid iPad to work. I would go get a hardware controller to try to use as a MCU extension, but I have no idea if that would even work. The V-Control Pro app, oddly enough worked as a second MCU master a few years ago, but it was problematic, as one would expect. In any event, they changed that software to subcription, so it is dead to me now (paid $50 for that ripoff).

So, the Eucon format is limping along, I guess.. that protocol sucked with DP even before Avid got their paws on it. Open Sound Control on its face is useless with DP as far as I can tell.. and the Radikal SAC driver- I mean, seriously? For who? So I'm left with MCU, and having to get up from my composing station or leave my live room and walk over to the console to mute a channel.. or, I can stop playing music and use the mouse for everything, provided I carry it around with me. DP Control worked perfectly for my setup, and they let it die. I'm sure there is a reason for it, but it can't be a good enough reason. Again, ALL the DAWs have this, even the stupid free ones. Protools has an app, even as Avid also sell their own ridiculously overpriced hardware controllers.

I've used DP for over 25 years, so this is not going to get me to jump ship by any stretch.. but, if a company is going to abandon a piece of software functionality, they should inform their user base, many of whom may be relying on it for their setup.

Rant is now over- but I'm open to suggestions on how I can get this simple functionality back.

Shooshie · Post by **Shooshie** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:56 am

First of all, I agree with you emotionally; the loss of DP Control is worse than suckish; it blows. It's sad. You get a taste of perfection, then watch it drift away. It's not the first time I've felt that with MOTU products. Mosaic, the music engraving software that followed MOTU's original: Professional Composer, was the best of worlds. Small, simple, and yet it had a feature set that gave most composers and arrangers everything they needed. Some of us didn't want to be able to control the pitch of every line, angle, font, and peculiar or offbeat notation. We just wanted to do write a standard score, and Mosaic did that perfectly and beautifully. Then... it went away. It was another ten years before I bought Sibelius. (I refused Finale after working with it in a pro studio for a few months, early in its existence)

Then there was Unisyn. Far from perfect, once you got the hang of it you could accomplish a lot of work, quickly, with your rack units. It was nothing for me to reconfigure an entire bank of sounds to fit my template, which is opposite the way most people worked, but it made it so easy. Took only a few seconds. As VIs caught on, Unisyn died away. I have a rack of gear now that probably will never be reprogrammed, because I have nothing with which to do it. It's static, and mostly useless, unless I want to sit there and punch four buttons 5000 times to get a new set of sounds or to alter one.

There have been others, but it doesn't matter now. DP Control, however, is not disposable. It's part of the flagship of their software line. And as you said, it's something ALL DAWs do now, and I'd guess that they all do it well, since iOS programming is at a zenith.

But let's not give up hope. As inexcusable as it may be, DP Control's loss is probably temporary. MOTU is a small company that has to manage its resources strategically. They have to make money on ABC to pay for development on XYZ. They pretty much have to go into development with money in hand, so when ABC starts to pay, it takes a little time to get the necessary excess saved up to go back into development with something else. You will recall that MOTU has recently released a revolutionary line of interface boxes. When you read about them, it sounds nothing short of magical. They practically set themselves up, work over long distances, and are scalable from one desktop station and monitor to a full stadium of live audio. It took some bucks to get this developed and launched. Give it till Christmas, when they can make a little money, and see if development on DP Control doesn't resume in, say, February. If we don't see it coming back by summer, then I'd say that MOTU has a problem. Either lack of cash or a blind eye, either way it is a problem. But give it some time. I think they'll bring it back.

It was simply too good to drop.

Shooshie

Killahurts · Post by **Killahurts** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:20 pm

Shooshie wrote:Then there was Unisyn. Far from perfect, once you got the hang of it you could accomplish a lot of work, quickly, with your rack units. It was nothing for me to reconfigure an entire bank of sounds to fit my template, which is opposite the way most people worked, but it made it so easy. Took only a few seconds. As VIs caught on, Unisyn died away. I have a rack of gear now that probably will never be reprogrammed, because I have nothing with which to do it. It's static, and mostly useless, unless I want to sit there and punch four buttons 5000 times to get a new set of sounds or to alter one.

Unisyn was an outstanding piece of work! I was sad to see it go too. I always figured that it was just too hard for MOTU to keep up development on that software, being that it worked exclusively with third party products. Every time some company came out with a new synth, they would have to go back in..

But let's not give up hope. As inexcusable as it may be, DP Control's loss is probably temporary. MOTU is a small company that has to manage its resources strategically. They have to make money on ABC to pay for development on XYZ. They pretty much have to go into development with money in hand, so when ABC starts to pay, it takes a little time to get the necessary excess saved up to go back into development with something else. You will recall that MOTU has recently released a revolutionary line of interface boxes. When you read about them, it sounds nothing short of magical. They practically set themselves up, work over long distances, and are scalable from one desktop station and monitor to a full stadium of live audio. It took some bucks to get this developed and launched. Give it till Christmas, when they can make a little money, and see if development on DP Control doesn't resume in, say, February. If we don't see it coming back by summer, then I'd say that MOTU has a problem. Either lack of cash or a blind eye, either way it is a problem. But give it some time. I think they'll bring it back.

I hope you're right.. I think I'll take on your optimism about this. And I'll even buy the notion that it could be all those new boxes they have (which are indeed magical) holding it up. But like Unisyn, it's harder to have had something cool and lost it, than if it had never been developed. I've been doing audio a long time, and I easily get set in my ways- if I finally find a solution for a complex issue in my studio, that problem is solved and I don't want to have to start over again next year.

BKK-OZ · Post by **BKK-OZ** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:11 pm

I agree - DP Control should have been updated a long long time ago.

I wouldn't even mind if they made it a paid 'extra'.

bayswater · Post by **bayswater** » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:50 pm

I hope it gets updated, and a modest charge would be fine with me.

But it might be that MOTU never developed DP Control in the first place. The aforementioned Unisys was not developed by MOTU, but bought from Dr T, and not developed much further. Mach Five is from UVI, and the recent thread on it raised some doubts about whether there will be a version 4. Maybe DP Control was developed by a third party who can't or won't update it.

Another point made by others is that DP doesn't seem to fully support the standard protocols out there now, like MCU. Perhaps further work ought to be focussed on getting that sorted out so we can better use 3rd party apps, rather than depending on a version dedicated to DP.

Killahurts · Post by **Killahurts** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:05 am

Turns out you can trick DP into having two MCU masters. In the Control Surfaces Setup, it's done by selecting the correct "+" button- not the one in the existing MCU/Extender set (which will automatically put another MCU extender), but as a new controller. There is a kind of separating line in that window. It comes up as OSC or something, and then you manually change it to MCU and pick the correct ports.

It's weird to move a fader on the iPad and see the fader on the console move with it.. I would think that moving the faders or banking a lot might be pushing my luck with this less-than-legal system, but I really only need mutes, rec enable and transport. I noticed also that DP has startup errors when when set this way, although it could be a coincidence.. so I turn it on while DP is up and running, and off before I quite.

Tidwells@aol.com · Post by **Tidwells@aol.com** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:25 am

Personally, the lack of support for DP control in DP 9 is a deal-breaker. I'm sticking with DP 8 until this issue is resolved. I use DP Control live on stage to cue up, start, and stop songs. Or am I misunderstanding: Will DP Control work on DP 9 as long as I stick with my current old IOS version on my I-pod Touch? Is the problem the newer IOS revisions or DP 9, or both?

Doug

Killahurts · Post by **Killahurts** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:31 am

I don't think any of us know the answer to that. It didn't just stop working one day.. the demise began when it started to become unreliable, and then downhill from there.

labman · Post by **labman** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:25 am

Shooshie wrote:Then there was Unisyn.
Shooshie

Oh boy. You just had to bring up Unisyn?!?!? My day was going pretty well till you reminded me of Unisyn Shooshie. LOL!!! arghhh...

Sean Kenny · Post by **Sean Kenny** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:06 pm

That's why I haven't updated my iOS or phone. Still on an iPhone 4S for that reason only. DP control pure and simple

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:02 pm

Tidwells@aol.com wrote:Personally, the lack of support for DP control in DP 9 is a deal-breaker. I'm sticking with DP 8 until this issue is resolved. I use DP Control live on stage to cue up, start, and stop songs. Or am I misunderstanding: Will DP Control work on DP 9 as long as I stick with my current old IOS version on my I-pod Touch? Is the problem the newer IOS revisions or DP 9, or both?

Are you using one sequence file containing a chunk for each song. I found DP Control too slow. I used something called Keypad Pro in the app store to make custom buttons that control the transport, but also a button for each song in the set. Just configure it to send a key combination that you assign to that chunk in the Commands window in DP and it's much faster. My drummer is doing this on my iPad 2 and it's way faster than using DP Control which required going to a different page, scrolling through the chunks and then selecting it, then switching back to the main page and tapping play.

Martini Hill · Post by **Martini Hill** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:34 am

Ok James. This got my attention. I did some checking into Keypad Pro. I am trying to envision how you have it set up to cue tracks for live performance. With KPP, can you actually create a "playlist" much like Cakewalk 9's "Virtual Jukebox" to scroll through tracks and cue them?

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

billf · Post by **billf** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:37 pm

Tidwells@aol.com wrote:Personally, the lack of support for DP control in DP 9 is a deal-breaker. I'm sticking with DP 8 until this issue is resolved. I use DP Control live on stage to cue up, start, and stop songs. Or am I misunderstanding: Will DP Control work on DP 9 as long as I stick with my current old IOS version on my I-pod Touch? Is the problem the newer IOS revisions or DP 9, or both?

Doug

For me it works on iOS9 with DP9. However, it is unreliable. Sometimes it will freeze upon launching. Sometimes all functions work. Other times, it only partially works. I have a stable set up, so why it should be so hit and miss is a complete mystery.

frankf · Post by **frankf** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:46 pm

I love Keypad Pro, but it's been pulled from the App Store. Does anyone know what's up with this app or a replacement? Tripi, if you see this, do you have any info?

YouTube · Post by **James Steele** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:53 pm

Martini Hill wrote:Ok James. This got my attention. I did some checking into Keypad Pro. I am trying to envision how you have it set up to cue tracks for live performance. With KPP, can you actually create a "playlist" much like Cakewalk 9's "Virtual Jukebox" to scroll through tracks and cue them?

Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk

I didn't like scrolling through the list of chunks. That took too much time. In short here's what I did:

1) Assign a unique key combination to a Chunk in DP's Commands window. I usually use a letter plus all the modifier keys at once to avoid conflicts with other commands.

2) Configure a button in Keypad Pro so that when you press it, it sends that key combination thus calling up the chunk.

3) Configure standard transport buttons.

This is much faster than scrolling though a list, as I make one on screen button per song with the song title on it or just a couple words of the song title so it can be identified. We can finish a song and then my drummer can start any song we want with two quick presses, the song button and then the play button in rapid succession.

All of this may be moot as someone said Keypad Pro was pulled from the App Store.

That's too bad, because it was very useful. Perhaps there's a similar app capable of sending Mac keystrokes, etc.

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