UA and delay compensation in 7.24 & 8

[rukidding]

When I have UA Pultec Peo ATR102 inserted in the master fader I have quite inaccurate timing.
i was told that the reason is that UA is isn't reporting the amount of delay compensation to DP so i just delete those plugs and insert them after I've done my MIDI sequencing. It would be nice to use these plugs while sequencing though. Has anything changed in DP8? Thanks

[HCMarkus]

That's not a problem with DP. No machine yet invented can predict the future.

Don't add Master Buss plug ins, especially one with a big look-ahead/processing delay, until all VI work is done.

[rukidding]

I didn't say it was a problem with DP. It appears to me that UA and DP aren't communicating as some Waves plug-ins because I don't have timing issues with any Waves plugs as far as I know.

[HCMarkus]

Try Waves L3 and tell me what happens... for me, big time time delay.

Many plugs don't need to use lookahead, so the buffer (delay) isn't as large or noticeable. Limiters, as are typically used in a mastering chain, need to look ahead to avoid overshoots without hard clipping. So the delay is obvious.

I will say that I can use a UA compressor lik the LA2A emulation without noticible delay.

[Shooshie]

Try Waves L3 and tell me what happens... for me, big time time delay.

Many plugs don't need to use lookahead, so the buffer (delay) isn't as large or noticeable. Limiters, as are typically used in a mastering chain, need to look ahead to avoid overshoots without hard clipping. So the delay is obvious.

I will say that I can use a UA compressor lik the LA2A emulation without noticible delay.

Yeah, the L3 has a built-in delay of (if I remember correctly) 80ms. Waves is pretty good about making their plugins obey the delay compensation within a DAW, and when I use them, they never cause phasing issues due to lack of delay compensation. Of course, that means delaying everything else for 80ms to match the plug-in's built-in look-ahead delay-compensation, and this sentence has to be a prize-winning entry in hyphenation-competition. I don't know how that plays with UA's delay compensation, as I've never had access to UA plug-ins. (nor a hyphenation dictionary; I'm pretty sure most of those hyphens were unnecessary)

Shooshie

[Kurt Cowling]

UAD plugins are fine with delay compensation. The issue with the OP is trying to play a VI live through a plugin that has latency. Delay compensation can't fix that, no matter what. Some plugins may not require more than one buffer to accomplish it's task and can be played through live without additional delay beyond that imposed by your buffer setting. Others require delay compensation and can't be played through live. UAD plugins were never intended to be played through live unless you are using their Apollo interface and instantiating them in the Apollo console.

[rukidding]

Thanks Kurt & Shoosh. I understand now

[studio_651]

i've run into this same problem with UAD/DP/VE Pro. i'm still in 7.24 - still waiting on a more stable DP8 (especially watching the problems with .mov windows).

anyway, i found that using UAD plugs on any aux or master fader that was carrying audio coming back from my PC VE Pro slave would cause glitching and note drop-outs. i went for a while without using and UAD plugins until i'd rendered to audio, but that got to be a pain. so i (gasp!) disabled automatic plugin latency compensation in both VE Pro and DP 7.24 (since latency compensation doesn't work between DP 7.24 and VE Pro 5 anyway). yes, that means i have to nudge my MIDI notes a little ahead of the grid in order for everything to time up right, but for me it's worth it right now. at least now i can use UAD plugins anywhere i want (i still usually wait until later stages if i can help it) and i'm not getting any note drop-outs. it'll be so nice someday when DP, my UAD card, and VE Pro all play nicer together (if that ever happens), but i've at least found a system that allows me to get my work done in the meantime.

[towerproductions]

I have also found this to be true at times when running a parallel drum buss and putting a UAD limiter on one of them, I will sometimes get a noticeable delay on the drum even though delay compensation is turned on. Although some limiters/compressors don't seem to do this with parallel busses.

[supersonic]

i've run into this same problem with UAD/DP/VE Pro. i'm still in 7.24 - still waiting on a more stable DP8 (especially watching the problems with .mov windows).

anyway, i found that using UAD plugs on any aux or master fader that was carrying audio coming back from my PC VE Pro slave would cause glitching and note drop-outs. i went for a while without using and UAD plugins until i'd rendered to audio, but that got to be a pain. so i (gasp!) disabled automatic plugin latency compensation in both VE Pro and DP 7.24 (since latency compensation doesn't work between DP 7.24 and VE Pro 5 anyway). yes, that means i have to nudge my MIDI notes a little ahead of the grid in order for everything to time up right, but for me it's worth it right now. at least now i can use UAD plugins anywhere i want (i still usually wait until later stages if i can help it) and i'm not getting any note drop-outs. it'll be so nice someday when DP, my UAD card, and VE Pro all play nicer together (if that ever happens), but i've at least found a system that allows me to get my work done in the meantime.

I find the offset MIDI plug to be very useful in such time. Interesting problem though. I will investigate this with a second computer. So far I have only used VE Pro on the same computer (to bypass DP 7's 32 bit limitation) but now that 8 is 64 I don't use it so much any more. I used UAD plug ins directly in VE Pro and didn't notice any latency.

[waitsongs]

While I agree you're problem might be latency caused by playing through some of UA's heavier plugins (or even just hitting DP's buffer limits), if your Master Fader is outputting directly to the monitors, any heavy processing or look-ahead plugins on that fader will create a monitoring delay (as HCMarkus pointed out).

In case you don't know the workaround for this problem, here's one: create 2 new auxes: a Submix Aux and a Master Aux (you can still keep the master fader in there if you want, but make sure it has no plugs on it)....Set the Submix Aux outputs to the Master Aux, and the Master Aux outputs to the monitor outs (whether that's Mains or whichever interface outputs feed your monitors). Switch outputs on all tracks, instruments, and any additional auxes so they now output to the Submix Aux. Then put all your master type plugs on the Submix Aux, and NO plugs on the Master Aux. This should eliminate any monitor delay, but still let you listen through look-ahead type plugins.