MSI experience ( 2 weeks )

[JensVerwiebe]

Hello
as a new owner of MSI, i wan‘t to inform you about some
glitches in this plug-in.

I use it as an AU with Logic 7.1 under Tiger ( OSX 10.4.2 ).Dual G4 1.47

1. The plug is crashing the host from time to time, especially when loading performances.
I never had this before. ( AU-validation is passed o.k. )

2. Made changes on the reverb-lenght-parameter change back to default every time the plug-in-window
is reopened. automation of this prameter not possible.
GUI is losing response from time to time, has to be reopened.

3. I can‘t use any of the convolution reverbs on my Dual 1,47 G4.
The CPU shows something around 50% ,but the sound is stuttering and so unusable.
Maybe the performance should be optimized, it should be possible to use the convolution
reverbs on such a mashine too, like these of other manufacturers. ( Apple, Waves...)

4. Some loops in the violins are not set properly , the sound is shot and ugly. Same with bass,
the loops are pulsing on some notes.

5. There is too much noise on the upper violins

6. MIDI-implementation falls short in comparison to other plugs. The parameters are not sent
to the host. It is not shown up as Plug-in-spezific parametres in the Logic-trackautomation
as usual.

7. Being unable to use better than the fast reverbs, i would like to have individual outs ore aux-sends
to use better reverb-algorithms in Logic then.

8. Some more unweighted sound issues, but i‘ve no time to count them all yet. ( ugly vel-switch / zones etc. )

The basic sound is o.k., but adding all the trouble-points i can‘t use MSI in any production now,
so iám disappointed.

I bought Miroslav Symphonic to get my produktion finished.
Sounds good, much more worked out in details of splits / loops etc.
Convolution reverb works on my Dual G4 1.47 CPU.
MIDI implementation better.
Special feature stretch makes it possible to finetune speed of
for example tremolo-strings.
No chrashes so far.
It‘s worth to spend this 100,- Euro more.

At the end, i will resell the MSI.



Jens Verwiebe

[Ildon]

Yeah, a lot of people say that MSI is a CPU hog. I'm not sure why so many people are having trouble with the reverb and the sounds. In my experience, MSI hasn't been CPU intensive at all. I only have 1 gig of RAM on a custom Windows XP PC, and I can play a performance with a convolution reverb just fine with the buffer latency at 80ms. My CPU meter never seems to go over 30% (using big samples too). I don't think MSI is to blame for *all* the CPU hogging, I think it's probably a combination of things, like if you have a bunch of things running in the background or beside MSI (antivirus programs, spyware, other instruments, etc.)

[JensVerwiebe]

Just look at my post.
OSX 10.4.2 on a Mac, that means no antivirus programs, spyware, etc.)

Even with no other things running in Logic, the Convolutionreverb
creates crackling with CPU-meter showing less than 50%.
The sounds alone don‘t need much CPU.

Maybe it‘s the programming of the AU-version ? The GUI gives
some strange behaviour too.

What do you mean by 80ms latency? Thats a joke, eh ?
For proper playing, latency should be around 3 - 10 ms, that is
equivalent to a buffer of 128 to 512 samples !!!

Jens

[Ildon]

Nope. I get cackling if the latency is set to anything other than 80ms. Having my latency set like that isn't even that bad, but usually I do anything live on my Roland first. Some people have reported they needed 150ms for MSI to sound good, so I'm just thankful my MSI sounds good at 80ms.

If your latency is set to 10ms, that's more than likely why you're getting the cackling.

[JensVerwiebe]

I will sell it anyway.

With Miroslav Symphonic all works at 3 ms latency incl. Convolution.
Plus it has this usefull time-stretch/compress feature + single outs.

Waiting for updates to get something to work well is not possible
for me as a professional producer. I just wanted to simplyfie my
work, not complicating things.

Jens

[meeloo]

I will sell it anyway.

With Miroslav Symphonic all works at 3 ms latency incl. Convolution.
Plus it has this usefull time-stretch/compress feature + single outs.

Waiting for updates to get something to work well is not possible
for me as a professional producer. I just wanted to simplyfie my
work, not complicating things.

Jens

Miroslav does NOT provide a convolution reverb. It only gives access to a very low quality reverb unit. If you want to compare Symphonic's CPU consumption with Miroslav, use the fast reverbs. If you want the superior quality of convolution reverbs, the compromise is CPU.

[zerosin]

Waiting for updates to get something to work well is not possible
for me as a professional producer. I just wanted to simplyfie my
work, not complicating things.

Jens

You should consider a professional hardware based sampler. Software running on a DAW will never match the performance and reliability of true dedicated hardware that was designed to do just one thing.

If you are good at troubleshooting your computer than software like MSI suits just fine. If I can get it running on a single 1.2GHz upgraded Cube surely it is possible to get it going on your G4. Your OS may not be lean enough, this may not be causing you problems with your currently used software, but you may be wasting some CPU cycles that you could be reclaiming. How's your RAM?

[Spikey Horse]

Waiting for updates to get something to work well is not possible
for me as a professional producer. I just wanted to simplyfie my
work, not complicating things.

Jens

You should consider a professional hardware based sampler. Software running on a DAW will never match the performance and reliability of true dedicated hardware that was designed to do just one thing.

If you are good at troubleshooting your computer than software like MSI suits just fine. If I can get it running on a single 1.2GHz upgraded Cube surely it is possible to get it going on your G4. Your OS may not be lean enough, this may not be causing you problems with your currently used software, but you may be wasting some CPU cycles that you could be reclaiming. How's your RAM?

I doubt many proffesionals are still using hardware samplers - yes, for other uses- maybe for a particular hardware 'sound' or feature - but for *orchestral* work hardware samplers do not have the specs (RAM/disk steaming/MIDI sophistication etc) to run the higher end orchestral libraries which is why they are not supported formats.

Many proffesionals working with orchestral libraries now use dedicated macs/pc's (sometimes several) working as stand alone sofware samplers.

On a side note, MSI is not really a proffesional product anyway - for example VSL Complete orchestral package contains 238 GB of data (385,586 samples!) and costs £3660 whereas MSI contains 8GB and costs £229. This isn't supposed to sound like snobbery (it's not the size of your hard drive that counts etc) it's just the case.

Of course with ALL these new Orchestral products sticking pretty pictures of expensive instruments etc on their boxes/manuals then it's not supprising we all want them to sound as good as they look.

[zerosin]

You'll be hard pressed to look at a picture of a professional writing studio that does not have an E-MU Ultra series sampler in it somewhere. Including mine

A particular hardware 'sound' or feature is a reason to use vintage synths, not necessarily vintage samplers (unless you are going 8 or 12 bit). I wouldn't dream of performing with a software synth unless I could ditch it if it goes down without hurting the performance, or if I had a standby. OK maybe Reason, but MOTU's got a way to go to hit that mark with MSI.

"Many professionals working with orchestral libraries now use dedicated macs/pc's (sometimes several) working as stand alone software samplers."

That's a dedicated sampler used to do just one thing. Not a Mac running a DAW, VSI and probably several non-music related programs. The latter can work, but you need to be a computer guru to keep it working.

I'm not bashing your critique in any way. I had a lot of problems with MSI at first, but that was installing on an OS build with some millage and a lot of software running on it. After applying the techniques that one would use to optimized an operating system for performance hungry applications (this step seems to be forgotten by OS X users for some reason) I got it working just fine. Does anyone remember the extensions manager? Think OS X is fully optimized magically, no, it hasn't reached HAL status yet.

[JensVerwiebe]

I have no problems with performance in general.
I use a Dual 1.47 7457-CPU, 1.5 GB RAM.

I don‘t wanted/needed VSL-like quality or quantity
of samples. I just need it additionally

My critics is against the mass of bugs in it.

What should i do with ensemble-bass, when
3 notes out of the range are not proper looped?

I just hoped for a well-finished produkt, not a Beta.

Well, it is cheap.
But it has nice sounds and capabilities.
Iám sorry they missed the advertized
"pristine audio fidelity and careful attention to detail ( Motu-page )"
I hope the bugs are resolved soon, so i would change my mind and
keep it additionally.

Jens