Well this is a contentious article...

[James Steele]

Either the band couldn't care less how well they played, or they got big heads, and wanted to quit their jobs and hit the road. None of them wanted to just develop a good sound and do it for fun.

Yeah. Finding the middle ground is difficult. I run into a lot of examples of the former, where it may be fun, but most of the members just don't care how sloppy they get. I joined a band years ago that I learned was like this and I quit. Personal pride wouldn't allow me to stay.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

TMI. Post deleted.

[James Steele]

I am probably fortunate in that my "day gig" is my own business and it's not terribly stressful, and as you point out Mike, being self-employed I have the option to just refuse to work with certain people if I make a decision that the stress that comes with it just isn't worth it. I had only one such former client and I would actually LIE and say I wasn't available when I'd get calls from him because it's much easier to say that than "I think you're a tiny bully with a Napoleonic complex and if I were forced to decide between working for you and jabbing myself in the eye with a fork, I would first have to call my doctor and inquire as to approximate healing time for such an eye injury, as the fork option might be the better of the two."

[SixStringGeek]

I tried this for a while, and had one of two experiences. Either the band couldn't care less how well they played, or they got big heads, and wanted to quit their jobs and hit the road. None of them wanted to just develop a good sound and do it for fun. That's why I got into MIDI -- make up my own band.

Same here. I'd like to find a nice group of "dedicated amateurs". I did the full time cover band thing for about six months - six nights a week. I had a blast. But now I'm not really into playing covers. I'd like to find a group of people who want to create some original music and record it and play at festivals and special events only.

I have an old friend who has pulled this off and has a nice local following, a couple nice records out, even featured on Pandora, but she has a day job and family life and only plays out now and then. I can't seem to find/build such a group. Been looking for a couple years.

[Gravity Jim]

From Walter Becker's "Expressions To Avoid During A Recording Session":

"I just wish I could get a whole band that sounds as good as me."

[James Steele]

Same here. I'd like to find a nice group of "dedicated amateurs". I did the full time cover band thing for about six months - six nights a week. I had a blast. But now I'm not really into playing covers. I'd like to find a group of people who want to create some original music and record it and play at festivals and special events only.

I'm sort of at the same place you are. I've been working on a CD for ages, having had to divide my time between another business that pays the bills and music. That of course interspersed with the not-uncommon bouts of "this sucks... I'm sick of this... I'm no good" that afflicts creative types-- especially when a project has dragged on for years.

However, I'm now entering the stage of putting together a group of musicians to perform my music live and do some shows. I got the drummer covered right off the bat. My friend who lives up in LA who did a wonderful job on the recording, Jim Watson, lives too far away and has too many commitments to be available all the time for shows, so I tapped a drummer I plaid with many years ago when were were just punk kids. Now I'm on the hunt for a bass player.

I think the realities of the music business today, should dissuade most logical people from getting "over serious" about an original project. If you're over a certain age, no record company with any actual muscle is going to waste their time with you. With the realities of file sharing and dwindling income, you pretty much have to be your own record company. My personal goals are to finish the CD, sell some units and hopefully break even... anything over that is good... and do some shows, hopefully landing some opening slots for major acts when they come through here. Going out on the road is impractical, beyond perhaps just a small regional thing.

Point is just to have fun. Now, the project might go further than that, but I think it's important not to get twisted up in knots trying to reach some pie-in-the-sky goal. Go out there... play... have fun... kick ass... see where it goes. But about being "serious"... my only issue is I'd rather stay home and not play than take ANY stage unprepared and sort of half-assing a performance. Doesn't matter WHAT I'm being paid.

[Shooshie]

Personally, I find it hard to make music when there is not money involved. Even if it's not much money, if it's a gig, it's just easier for me to do. I'll go all-out for other people, but not for myself. Kinda strange, but that's just how it is for me. I've done tons of stuff for myself, for free, some of which paid off later. But these days I just don't have a lot of interest in doing projects that nobody's going to hear. If there's not some money in it, it's usually not worth my time. I guess I stopped having something to prove decades ago, and the musician in me is so deeply ingrained that I've learned to trust that it comes out when I need it. I'm highly trained and all that stuff, and I do a good job. But I don't see bakers going to the park and baking up a ton of cakes and cookies for the world to enjoy, and oil refiners certainly don't open up their refineries to all the tanks you can fill up for free. Builders don't build a house and just let you live there, paying them if you feel like it.

Music is what I have always done to make my living. It just feels unnatural to go out and play for free. I have played a few times at my neighbor's parties, because he begs for me to do it. He'll beg for weeks. He's a nice guy -- a biker dude -- and his friends are bikers looking for hard core rock & roll. I'm a classical player, but I can play anything, so I play some rock for them, and they go crazy. But it just doesn't feel right to do it all the time. He makes it up to me, and I recently met a guitar player at his party with whom I might start actually playing again, doing rock and roll gigs. But I'm not a guy looking for experience or praise for what I'm doing. I got over that 35 years ago. When I make music, people get something very good from me. If you want to talk to me about purity in music, you're talking about the ability to play on a high level. The ability to join in with others who can play, and make something beautiful that none could have made on their own. That's musical purity -- letting go of the ego so that it can join with the other egos and make something great. Money has everything to do with it, because you're not going to get a group of those kinds of players together for free. And that's the kind of player I am. You want me to play? Pay me. I expect to be treated well when I play, because I always have been. I expect to be able to prepare. I don't have songs memorized, and I don't know all the changes to all the songs. Give me the chance to look them up in the fake books, so that I can do my best. Or give me orchestral music; I read well. I'm a pro, and I don't do amateur stuff. Music is work. Great music is fun, but it's still work. "Purity?" I really don't know what that is, other than great players doing their best together. But I've only done that in professional contexts.

You might say "but it doesn't really cost you anything to make some music." Geez. It has cost me everything. The cost never ends. I'd be afraid to add it all up and see if I've made more than I've spent. (I'm pretty sure I have, though) No, I didn't spend my life doing this just to give it away. There are plenty of people who will do that, so if you want "musical purity" for free, go to them.

[/high horse]

Shooshie

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Personally, I find it hard to make music when there is not money involved.

Oh, you mean you're a professional?

I agree. I would clarify that to say I find it very easy to make music anytime, but if I am to compose or perform, there has to be some incentive. That might be to further a cause for my communities (professional and local) which usually means a reduced fee. But sometimes it means PR, and sometimes it means just being nice to people you like and believe in.

But NEVER just "for free" for the "love" of it. Sure, I love music more than life sometimes, but I wouldn't give my life away, not do I play or write as a giveaway.

That really is the tragedy of all the online wannabes and free stuff so many are forced to surrender their careers before they even start. Once people know you will give it away, they will not pay you for it. And the tragedy is not that the music industry is suffering as much as it is that people who might otherwise have wonderfully rewarding careers making music are now relegated to feed what is essentially an empty desire. All give; no take; and that really sucks.

Good work has real value, whether it be a plumber, a dentist, a surgeon, or a musician. It's so easy to just turn on good music now that a lot of people refuse to buy or commission it. And the "contest" route is a waste of time. If you do "win" a really good contest, the promoter usually gets your copyright as well, thereby axing you potential income from licensing what might be your only popular work.

Nope. Pay to play. Music is like sex that way: one way or the other, you're going to end up paying for it.

[James Steele]

I feel somewhat compelled now to amplify my remarks a bit. I don't play for free either nor do I really promote that. I guess my outlook though is just one of realism about entering a very crowded space commercially. It just means to get involved and do what needs to be done, because so much of the responsibility for promotion, etc falls on the backs of musicians themselves initially.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

I'll also add to my comments. I think it's important to give back to the community that supports you - locally and if you're lucky, globally or at least regionally or nationally. Just how you do that can be tricky in terms of maintaining a professional standing in the process of doing do.

[Prime Mover]

I'd go as far to say that in most situations, you have a RESPONSIBILITY to charge money. You have a responsibility to the rest of the professional music community. Even if you don't care about making a living at it, other musicians do, and giving away free music is completely undermining their business.

Also, as musicians, the last thing we want is for the general public to start thinking of live music as being lesser value than going to the movies, the theatre, or a sporting event.

[Mr. Quimper]

Posted before, but it never gets old:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... j5IV23g-fE

[Gravity Jim]

If you're talking about live performance in bars and clubs, maybe giving it away really does undermine the market. But in my experience in the video game business right now....

There is a gold rush of development for mobile platforms, and I wrote (and got paid for) the music for a couple of hits for the iOS, which got a lot of attention from start-ups devs. Most of these guys were pie-in-the-sky kids with no money, and they expected that I would give the music away, or sell it for a pittance, or work out a per copy deal with them (right, I'm going to pore over your sales numbers every week to make sure I get my cut). I always said no, but there are hundreds of other pie-in-the-sky kids with a Mac and a copy of Reason who will "score" your game for free or for 10 bucks a track. So they'd work with one of them.

Dsspite the vast nmber of freebie producers, this year over 60% of my billing is coming from video game devs.

I guess my point is that there are always two or more "streams," one made up of guys who want free work and guys who will do that, and another comprised of people who expect to pay for the work and suppliers who expect to be paid. If the bottom feeders who produce mediocre work for nothing start charging, the market won't change for me. Those devs will either use royalty free stuff from the web or make their own bleep-bloop music with their own copy of Fruity Loops. They're not going to start paying my rate, that's for sure.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

‎"A writer is somebody for whom writing is more difficult than it is for other people."

~ Thomas Mann

Same applies to writing music - it is not easy work. I suppose there will always be a market for bad art as well.

[toodamnhip]

To make the money I make in music, by doing non-musical activities, I’d have to work several jobs and wouldn’t have time for music or sleep.
I think the income from “casuals” could be replaced with a regular job.
But those of us earning a decent or even better than decent living in music, couldn;t match the $ with a regular job.

I’d have to chop my lifestyle down to living in a one bedroom crappy apt, and my neighbors could then tell me to turn down my music. That would do my “artistic” side little good.