VENTING: The cheap music consumer

[James Steele]

Yes, but what's disturbing is that these people were over 30. I think this trend is percolating upward to older generations. They may not understand the technical issues or assume because it's out there someone's been paid. Time to invest in a silkscreening machine. Maybe if you can reduce your unit costs on T-shirts??

[daniel.sneed]

If that goes on they'll end with many tee-shirts, but little or no music at all.
Later on, they won't have any more names to print on their tee-shirts!

[cowtothesky]

I agree, James. This has bothered me for years. Something tangible can be a limited product, so artists have an edge in this regard. Once they have a reputation, their original paintings can be worth a lot of money. But, music recordings are nothing but information that is translated to speakers and sent through air. I do understand the work it takes to write and record an original music piece. But, I think that musicians have to bundle their music with signed cd's, t-shirts, hats, and live performances, in order to make any money.

I have pretty much resigned into accepting that music is free. I don't agree with it, but the reality is what it is. The only way to recoup is to specialize into advertising jingles, film scores, live performances, merchandise sales, etc. There will always be a large segment that will rip and copy your cd. So, I guess the only way to move forward is to build your reputation and bundle the music with other goodies.

Another thing that is changing rapidly is the number of musicians. It seems that nowadays everyone plays guitar. It used to be somewhat unique to be a musician, but it is so saturated now. I'm not sure if this is the result of technology, American Idol, or other factors. It is just crazy how many people claim to be songwriters by taking 3 chords and recording music with garageband or whatever.

Things are so much different now. I'm not sure how all of this is going to pan out years from now.

[Phil O]

I think internet service providers should have to pay ASCAP and BMI just like other venues that have free music. They should have to pay them a lot!

Phil

[cowtothesky]

I think internet service providers should have to pay ASCAP and BMI just like other venues that have free music. They should have to pay them a lot!

Phil

You know, that is a pretty good idea. The problem is that they have no control over what the internet user decides to seek out. A radio station decides to air certain music, but an internet provider only provides a way to get on the net highway. It would be similar to putting a tax on auto manufacturers if people listen to illegal music on their radio. But, if there was some sort of a licensing tax on service providers that paid ASCAP/BMI, given that the internet is not enforceable, that would make perfect sense to me. It still wouldn't change all of the international internet users, unless several countries signed on to it.

[James Steele]

Here's a recent exchange taken from my Facebook page wall:

Rebecca: Hey James ...any new songs out???

James: There are new songs, but not "out" just yet.

Rebecca: K send em to me when they are out.... THANKS

James: Well, I'm probably going to release them on a CD and the idea generally is to sell those to help recoup the cost of recording. Unless you work for a radio station or something? Sorry if I don't remember?

Rebecca: you were on my spacebook so YEAH I have been listening to your songs awhile...

Rebecca: links requested to any songs on you tube...TY

James: I don't think I have anything on YouTube. Certainly no music video at this point. See, the thing is in order to afford to do this, you eventually hope to sell something... a CD, a download, etc. Streaming is fine, but to download the song to an iPod, etc. it's nice to be able to sell it on iTunes or Amazon so that you're not losing money... or not losing AS MUCH money depending on the expense involved in recording the song in the first place.

Rebecca: OH wow ....somehow I thought you sent me a link when I did the myspace thing, James you might want to rethink that...I think that you tube would be a promoter for you...A HUGE ONE to say the leasr...it is up to you....HAVE A GREAT DAY....

Rebecca: ooops to say the least

James: How would you suggest I use YouTube? I'm always interested in good ideas.

Now I think I've tried to educate this person a little bit along the way gently. But ultimately her suggestion is to make stuff available on YouTube so she can see/hear whatever it is for free because it's a huge "promoter" for me.

Now granted, I'm well aware I'm not a big time artist and you can't always "monetize" from the get-go, but people have this idea that giving stuff away is great "promotion" but to what end? At some point if you don't SELL something you exhaust your ability or willingness to lose money promoting "what" exactly?

Also, honestly I'm rethinking "streaming" entire songs. Even if someone isn't sophisticated enough to use something like Audio Hijack to capture a stream, the fact that so many have broadband, etc. is the lack of an actual file downloaded to their device an impediment? If people are home they just stream it when they want to listen-- or go to YouTube.

I get the feeling in an odd sense is that YouTube is sort of becoming a stop for people who aren't sure what to do now that Limewire is dead to find copyrighted music. Many people take songs, add slide shows to them, and then upload them as video.

Any way, again trying to make clear that I don't think I'm at a point where I can not give away a download here or there or don't need to promote, but there really seems that the more you do it, the more the consumer expects it.

[James Steele]

Here's a recent exchange taken from my Facebook page wall:

Rebecca: Hey James ...any new songs out???

James: There are new songs, but not "out" just yet.

Rebecca: K send em to me when they are out.... THANKS

James: Well, I'm probably going to release them on a CD and the idea generally is to sell those to help recoup the cost of recording. Unless you work for a radio station or something? Sorry if I don't remember?

Rebecca: you were on my spacebook so YEAH I have been listening to your songs awhile...

Rebecca: links requested to any songs on you tube...TY

James: I don't think I have anything on YouTube. Certainly no music video at this point. See, the thing is in order to afford to do this, you eventually hope to sell something... a CD, a download, etc. Streaming is fine, but to download the song to an iPod, etc. it's nice to be able to sell it on iTunes or Amazon so that you're not losing money... or not losing AS MUCH money depending on the expense involved in recording the song in the first place.

Rebecca: OH wow ....somehow I thought you sent me a link when I did the myspace thing, James you might want to rethink that...I think that you tube would be a promoter for you...A HUGE ONE to say the leasr...it is up to you....HAVE A GREAT DAY....

Rebecca: ooops to say the least

James: How would you suggest I use YouTube? I'm always interested in good ideas.

Now I think I've tried to educate this person a little bit along the way gently. But ultimately her suggestion is to make stuff available on YouTube so she can see/hear whatever it is for free because it's a huge "promoter" for me.

Now granted, I'm well aware I'm not a big time artist and you can't always "monetize" from the get-go, but people have this idea that giving stuff away is great "promotion" but to what end? At some point if you don't SELL something you exhaust your ability or willingness to lose money promoting "what" exactly?

Also, honestly I'm rethinking "streaming" entire songs. Even if someone isn't sophisticated enough to use something like Audio Hijack to capture a stream, given the fact that so many have broadband, etc. is the lack of an actual file downloaded to their device an impediment? If people are home they just stream it when they want to listen-- or go to YouTube.

I get the odd feeling that YouTube is sort of becoming a way for people who aren't sure what to do now that Limewire is dead to find copyrighted music. Many people take songs, add slide shows to them, and then upload them as video.

Any way, again trying to make clear that I don't think I'm at a point where I can not give away a download here or there or don't need to promote, but it really seems that the more you do so, the more the consumer expects it.

[cowtothesky]

Here's a recent exchange taken from my Facebook page wall:

Rebecca: Hey James ...any new songs out???

James: There are new songs, but not "out" just yet.

Rebecca: K send em to me when they are out.... THANKS

James: Well, I'm probably going to release them on a CD and the idea generally is to sell those to help recoup the cost of recording. Unless you work for a radio station or something? Sorry if I don't remember?

Rebecca: you were on my spacebook so YEAH I have been listening to your songs awhile...

Rebecca: links requested to any songs on you tube...TY

James: I don't think I have anything on YouTube. Certainly no music video at this point. See, the thing is in order to afford to do this, you eventually hope to sell something... a CD, a download, etc. Streaming is fine, but to download the song to an iPod, etc. it's nice to be able to sell it on iTunes or Amazon so that you're not losing money... or not losing AS MUCH money depending on the expense involved in recording the song in the first place.

Rebecca: OH wow ....somehow I thought you sent me a link when I did the myspace thing, James you might want to rethink that...I think that you tube would be a promoter for you...A HUGE ONE to say the leasr...it is up to you....HAVE A GREAT DAY....

Rebecca: ooops to say the least

James: How would you suggest I use YouTube? I'm always interested in good ideas.

Now I think I've tried to educate this person a little bit along the way gently. But ultimately her suggestion is to make stuff available on YouTube so she can see/hear whatever it is for free because it's a huge "promoter" for me.

Now granted, I'm well aware I'm not a big time artist and you can't always "monetize" from the get-go, but people have this idea that giving stuff away is great "promotion" but to what end? At some point if you don't SELL something you exhaust your ability or willingness to lose money promoting "what" exactly?

Also, honestly I'm rethinking "streaming" entire songs. Even if someone isn't sophisticated enough to use something like Audio Hijack to capture a stream, given the fact that so many have broadband, etc. is the lack of an actual file downloaded to their device an impediment? If people are home they just stream it when they want to listen-- or go to YouTube.

I get the odd feeling that YouTube is sort of becoming a way for people who aren't sure what to do now that Limewire is dead to find copyrighted music. Many people take songs, add slide shows to them, and then upload them as video.

Any way, again trying to make clear that I don't think I'm at a point where I can not give away a download here or there or don't need to promote, but it really seems that the more you do so, the more the consumer expects it.

Interesting. I just don't see how posting original material on youtube helps in any way. It is not like you are the only composer being ripped and put on youtube. So, you are competing with people putting John Williams, Hans Zimmer, or whatever else they want on youtube. They seem to get away with it by, like you said, making some slide show, and throwing it up on youtube.

The only time I've seen youtube actually help a composer is when they post 'how-to' videos, such as Mike Patti and his videos. Other than that, I would refrain putting any original stuff on youtube, unless you are just starting out and want to get a reputation or you are trying to promote a bigger idea, such as posting a movie trailer or something.

[VitcoMusic]

It looks like the 'entitlement' mentality has spread like a cancer in American society. Now everyone wants free music along with everything else.

Can we honestly say that the younger generation (teens), not only has a great work ethic, but truly appreciates the work of others.. enough to pay a whopping 99 cents for a single song you and put many hours into producing?

Feeling your frustration....

DV


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[James Steele]

Well, Rebecca followed up with this. As you recall I asked how she thought I should use YouTube. Here's her reply:

Rebecca: Well you put your band on there playing a song..I post it and over 300 people see it AND they of course like it...you get some air time...get it???

I followed up thusly:

James: You mean people see the video and I get "air time" over the internet? I understand that part. Ultimately, sooner or later, what I'm saying is at the end of the day you need to SELL something eventually. That's all I meant about why I put certain songs for sale on Amazon or iTunes. You can promote yourself until the cows come home, but unless at the end of the day it results in the sale of a ticket, CD, or download, you have a hobby.

---

I guess I understand "promoting oneself," however I'm old enough to have tired of the endless "it's for exposure" string of freebies of various sorts. She says a whopping 300 people might see a YouTube video and then DO WHAT??? My point to her is at some point, COMMERCE MUST TAKE PLACE and you can delay it and delay it for some future big pay-off down the road, but in the meantime you can show your video to the check out gal at Albertson's and hope she'll be sufficiently impressed to let you have those groceries you need, but it ain't gonna happen.

That said, it seems like really what you must do is be prolific and obviously if you can, you perform in support of the material, but you need to have a LOT of "product" on the market and the older stuff can sell as newer fans discover your music and the older stuff has already recouped costs. Oh yeah, and the various other merch, etc.

[Guitar Gaz]

YouTube is a bit like playing live for free - okay if you have a following and can use it for promotion of a tour or album. But otherwise it is just a free way of listening to music which probably won't do the artist any good at all. Scarcity of resources drives economics - maybe the odd snippet or taster to build up interest which may eventually lead to someone parting with cash - but otherwise its a free form of spotify for which you will get no royalties. So I would advise at most 1 track or a snippet of a track to be posted - but that's it. If people want more they will have to buy it or come and see you. People are lazy and penny pinching - if you give them music for free why would they bother to pay to see you or buy your music? Only when you become an event, or the cool underground artist about to break with the "must be seen at vibe" can YouTube really work with the number of hits becoming the news itself.

[Phil O]

She says a whopping 300 people might see a YouTube video and then DO WHAT???

Well, if 300 people see it and you get the typical 1% response to advertising, that's 3 people who might go to iTunes and spend 99 cents. So, what's your cut of that? Jeesh, just do the math, you could make a decent year's salary in say 33,000 years.

Phil

[Guitar Gaz]

She says a whopping 300 people might see a YouTube video and then DO WHAT???

Well, if 300 people see it and you get the typical 1% response to advertising, that's 3 people who might go to iTunes and spend 99 cents. So, what's your cut of that? Jeesh, just do the math, you could make a decent year's salary in say 33,000 years.

Phil

The point is, if its on YouTube for you to see and hear for free why would they bother downloading it?

[Phil O]

Got it, Gaz. Guess my sarcasm wasn't blatant enough. I'll have to work on that. Where's Monkey Man when you need him?

Anyway, the whole situation makes me sick. The recording business is going down the tubes right before our eyes and there doesn't seem to be any stopping it. I sympathize with everything James and others are going through.

Phil